When two parents decide to break up, most say that they will do everything they can to amicably co-parent and to make the transition as easy for their children as possible.
But some people really struggle to remain civil once everything's "official," cringed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor Fit_Leg_2037 was legally required to communicate with her ex-husband about important updates for their children, and she did so over a text message.
When he kept demanding that she include his future wife, who liked to commandeer the conversations and make decisions on behalf of their children, the Original Poster (OP) felt uncomfortable.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for disregarding my ex-husband 'requesting' that I message in a group text with his fiancée?"
The OP received a request from her ex-husband to be more inclusive of his partner.
"I (38 Female) have been divorced for 12 years, and my kids with my first husband (38 Male) are 15 and 17."
"We have very minimal contact. I really try to text only when necessary, like when the kids have something important going on at school or, god forbid, an injury."
"Recently, I sent a courtesy text to my ex-husband about a small purchase for a necessity for my oldest so that his dad doesn't buy it, too."
"His follow-up text was, 'Hey, I just want it to be known that I want my fiancée included on the messages. Whatever you text, she knows anyways. No point leaving her out. If you leave your husband out, that's not my business.'"
"He continued, 'Whether you like it or not, she is just as much a part of their lives as mine. So in the future, please include her. I'm not trying to start anything. I feel like it's a respectful thing to include her. My fiancée is my other half and we make decisions together. Thanks.'"
The OP had reservations about her ex-husband's request because of their past history.
"I didn't know what to say, because to be honest, I do not want to message both of them."
"In the past when I did in an effort to get along with her and include her, any time there was a disagreement, it became a two-versus-one argument, and they start what I would call verbally abusive communication."
"If she would allow my ex and I to have these discussions without getting involved, I really wouldn't care too much about her being included in the chats. But she feels emboldened to share her perspective and entitled to argue with ME."
"I'm not saying I'm always right. It just gets so convoluted to discuss disagreements with her."
The new partner also made it very difficult for the OP and her ex to hold a conversation.
"There's also the issue of who I'm speaking to. In the group messages we've tried, he quits participating. She takes all control."
"Sometimes it's really important that I speak to him, especially when it's something I have to notify him about because of our court order, like when they have a medical appointment or get in trouble."
"In those situations, I have to message him personally so that I know that he received it, and I have to receive a response from him and record it, or it doesn't count."
"Sometimes I call him, because I don't trust that the messages from his phone are always written by him, either."
The OP was also aware that her ex would not extend her current husband the same courtesy.
"We've also tried in the past having my husband in the chat group or even having my husband text instead of me, and my ex-husband and his fiancée do NOT like it."
"They start throwing insults at him (remember I mentioned the verbal abuse before?). My husband actually does better than me with just ignoring them, because their insults don't get to him the same way they do me."
"But they refuse to continue discussing any subjects when he is involved in the group in any configuration, even if he's not participating. They end up texting me or in a group chat that exclusively includes me, my ex, and his fiancée."
The OP's ex-husband did not take her response well.
"After reading his text message, I told him no."
"My ex said that I was being childish, ridiculous, and a whole slew of other names, simply because I said no. He is relentless in this request, or demand, really."
"AITAH because I do not want to message both of them?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some theorized that the OP's ex-husband wanted to offload the responsibility to his fiancée.
"The dude is trying to make his ex-wife communicate with his new one so he doesn't have to be an adult."
"What's the bet she got mad at him for not letting her know what was going on with the kids? So he thinks that making OP do his job will fix his relationship." - Natural_Garbage7674
"I think the OP is right to wonder when she's talking to the ex-husband and when she's talking to his new girlfriend. I'll bet she's the one who wrote that text..." - Available-Fail-8090
"Add the fiancée on a new group chat with the three of you in that one ONLY, just to make sure she has all the info, because that's clearly the real issue here, him doing a terrible job of playing telephone and her struggling to put the pieces together, lol (laughing out loud)." - pamplemousse2
"You know he's only saying that because he's dumping it all on the fiancée which I am pretty sure is why he's divorced from OP." - Low-Act8667
"Yeah, what's the betting he got in trouble with his fiancée because she's the one parenting the kids and the one who actually needs that information and he failed to pass it on? I personally think that's more likely than the cheating theory." - tomtink1
"I am actually a stepmom myself and I was never really in the group chats. My husband would just tell to me what I missed. If he forgot, that was on him, and he had to deal with me."
"If I happened to be in the group chat, I never replied. I made sure my husband did. Also, her husband never was on the group chats, either. We weren't the ones co-parenting." - Visual_Pin5626
Sensing trouble, others encouraged the OP to use a third-party app going forward.
"That's when you respond with the parenting app link and say that you only feel comfortable communicating through there so it can be monitored for inappropriate behavior by all parties." - Quick-Store2989
"Tell him, 'Moving forward, I'm going to require that we communicate exclusively on a court-accepted parenting app. I will not communicate with you in any other way, for the safety and protection of all parties.'"
"Now if I really wanted to start something, I might also say that I have no interest in communicating with his current or any future partners he might have." - Mirabai503
"I am seeing more and more reasons for one of those co-parenting apps that the court can see. I don't know how the courts react if he is abusive towards you in one of those, but it may come back to bite him." - Top_Sheepherder_6041
"It kind of sounds like your ex is still bitter that you left him and his current fiancée is very aware of it. And both of them are jealous for different reasons. You're unfortunately stuck with the childishness of people who really should be leaving you out of their own personal problems."
"If this has been going on for years though, I don't understand why you haven't gone the legal route and established communication through a parenting app. Life's too short to be putting up with bullying and control tactics like that from them for years."
"NTA." - BeanEireannach
"OP, include in your response that you will only be using a parenting app that saves every message in case it needs to be used in custody or safety disputes. That may reduce some abusive language." - SewNewKnitsToo
Some also gave the OP advice on how to respond to her ex-husband's demands.
"I'm petty: 'I'll include her in the texts when you add her to our custody agreement. Until then, per our legal paperwork, I will only be communicating with you.'" - Ok-Recognition9876
"NTA. 'I will message you as required about our children. What you do with those messages, if you share them with your fiance (or not), is not my concern.'"
"'I intend no disrespect, but how you handle your relationship is on you, not on me. And, to be clear, you don't get to tell me what to do, so stop trying.'" - Lumpy_Marsupial_1559
"All of your responses here just prove that your ex is having issues with his fiancée that he has tasked you with handling. Hard no. Continue to communicate only with him."
"He is the only person with whom you are required to discuss anything having to do with your children. He and his GF aren't even married. And by the sound of it, they may never be."
"Stay out of their s**t. Legally, he can't force you to do anything here. You are doing what is required." - BecGeoMom
"According to the custody agreement, only the parents are communicating about the needs of their children."
"I don't have to deal with anyone else, I don't have to include in my messages to you your neighbors, friends, your parents, or your fiancee."
"If your fiancee doesn't trust you and has the need to be included, just forward her all messages but don't expect me to do it for you." - Dubbiely
"Honestly, I would say, 'John, when it comes to communication about our children, my only obligation is with you. How you choose to relay that information to your wife is on you. You have two choices: we continue to communicate with each other via text or we move our communications to one of the court recommended apps.'"
"'Let me know if you want to use the app and which one by next Friday so I can download it. If I don't hear from you by then, I will assume you want to keep the status quo.'" - VonShtupp
The subReddit could understand why the OP was stressed about her ex-husband's demands and did their best to offer options that would improve the OP's situation, whether it was maintaining her current boundaries or involving a third-party educational platform that would help keep everyone in check.
It seemed as long as the OP was relaying important messages, there shouldn't be a problem, but sometimes other people want to pick a fight and show dominance, and it seemed two out of three people in this conversation felt that way.
Expectant Dad Of Two Livid After Brother Questions Why He'd Bring Another Kid Into Bleak World
It's no secret that a lot of people are struggling right now, from the cost of living to job insecurity to food insecurity to poor housing. But that doesn't mean we have to stop living.
For many people, that means still starting and growing their families, while planning how to navigate the world we're currently in, pointed out the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor DesignerOwn1141 and his wife knew that the world around them wasn't at its best right now, but they were eager to grow their family and were excited to bring a third child into the world.
When they announced their pregnancy, his brother's first reaction was to send him articles about how the world was doomed and shame him for bringing a child into it; the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he needed to block his own brother.
He asked the sub:
The OP and his wife were excited to welcome a third child into their family.
"I am 33 and male. My wife is 29."
"We have two sons, a six-year-old boy and a three-year-old boy. Both are happy, healthy, and well taken care of."
"We love being parents to them, and I work very hard to provide a good life for my family."
"My wife is four months pregnant with our third."
The OP's brother's life was very different from his.
"My younger brother has been something of a failure-to-launch case."
"Despite having every advantage, he never got good grades in school, was addicted to 'League of Legends' so severely that he barely scraped by, and spends his days streaming games to nearly no viewers on Twitch."
"I've watched his stream a few times, but he just rages constantly."
"My wife is too classy to ever say so, but I can tell he makes her uncomfortable."
"He's my brother, so I've long wanted to believe he's just bad at communicating with people, but to be frank, he's sort of just an a**hole. He's unapologetic whenever he says something hurtful and more likely to just double down and say, 'No cap.'"
"But if anyone so much as challenges his views, he throws a huge fit."
The OP tried to share his happy news with his brother, but his brother immediately squandered it.
"Recently, we announced she was pregnant with our third child. It's a joyous occasion for us because we wanted three children, and our other two sons are excited about having another brother or sister."
"When I texted my brother the news, he immediately said he couldn't imagine having children with the world the way it was."
"I asked what he meant, and he started sending me these articles about global warming, the plague in Russia, wars around the world, and so on."
"He seems convinced that the world is going to end in ten years tops, and that I'm only bringing up another child to die in the 'water wars.'"
"I was honestly disgusted with him. To tell someone that their unborn child is going to die, that their other children are going to die, is absolutely abhorrent behavior."
"But since he's always been a sensitive s**thead, I just said, 'Whatever, man,' and stopped reading his texts."
"He wouldn't stop. He kept sending me every doomer article. He said that when the clouds evaporate, the earth is going to get 15 degrees hotter. He said that AI is going to hack every government database. He said that China is going to invade Taiwan, and then it'll be war with the US and allies against Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran."
The OP had had enough of his brother's negative feedback.
"Finally, I just told him I was blocking him and thought little of the decision."
"He went and cried to our parents (again, he's the most sensitive s**tbag in the world), and they told me what I did was over the top."
"I know that if I unblock him, he's just going to doomspam me again."
"Am I wrong for just straight-up saying I never want him in my life again?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that they understood why he felt the need to distance himself from his brother.
"NOR. He sounds insufferable."
"He sounds like one of those people who doesn't like his life and so wants everyone else to be miserable too, or makes excuses for why he didn't do more with his life by blaming his problems on some external crisis." - savingrain
"NOR. He's allowed to protect his peace, especially if his brother keeps ignoring boundaries and turning every conversation into another end-of-the-world prediction, and having kids is hardly a reason to apologize for trying to build a good life despite everything going on." - Upper-Cloud9097
"NOR. But your brother is on his way to a full mental breakdown. Send him back cute dog and cat videos. Cute horse videos. Ozzy animal voiceovers."
"Eventually his phone will start thinking he's like me and his feed will calm down." - Present_Original_797
"I mean, my beliefs and thoughts about the future are along the same lines as him, and that’s why I’m an anti-natalist, but there’s something called tact. And personal choice/autonomy."
"If someone chooses to have kids, that’s their choice, and I’d keep my opinions to myself and be supportive, especially if they’re a family member. Spreading doomer content is extremely insensitive and rude. NOR." - EngineerGold4242
"NOR: I wonder whether your brother is displaying sibling jealousy towards you and your family; he recognizes his own shortcomings and can see where he is in life compared to you, and that is his major issue."
"Days filled with unfulfilling computer games and doomspamming others, he has a lot of maturing to do. Block him until or unless he decides to join the adult world and be the uncle he is supposed to be." - iron_redditman
"NOR. I have all those fears and as such actively avoid news about them. I skipped whole paragraphs here for that reason too, lol."
"I’d definitely block my sibling or anybody else who did that to me. I already know all these things; I don’t need constant reminders. All I can do is work on improving my little corner of the world and trudge forward."
"Anyway, protect your peace." - hahagato
"You are not obligated to bond with someone just because you share blood. It’s your peace and your family that you need to protect now. If you decide to go zero contact, it’s perfectly okay!"
"Especially because you and your wife are in charge of two, almost three, little guys, and your mental peace affect directly to them."
"PS. Historically, the world has always been on the edge, but nothing stops us to be what we are, humans trying to get over all the s**t! So don’t let those bad things put you down. We can build a better world by raising kind, lovely people, and it seems you and your wife are doing it. Good luck!" - Camigatoespinace92
Others advised the OP to involve his parents in case they could help his brother.
"Unblock him and then send everything he texts you to both mom and dad. No comments, just forward it."
"They'll think you're sending it, and when they complain, you can tell them that you thought they'd be interested in your brother's articles as well."
"NOR." - No_Address687
"NOR. Your parents don't know the half of it. Forward everything and let them read it for themselves." - Available_Agent3305
"NOR. I’d keep him blocked; your parents are wrong. If you want to be petty, start sending your parents article after article of stuff you know they won’t like. They will get the hint soon enough." - OldieButNotMoldy
"I would also go low contact with the OP's parents. OP is clearly NOT the favorite son. Any boundaries he put up with his brother will be considered wrong. NOR." - Interesting_Novel997
"NOR, but also my first reaction is that your brother isn't a 'sensitive s**tbag,' he is struggling with anxiety/depression and maybe undiagnosed neurodivergence and is drowning in his own ruminations. None of that makes this an appropriate response to a pregnancy announcement; it's clearly not. But he sounds like someone who is clearly struggling here."
"If it were me, I'd be sending your parents anything he previously sent you. If they share your concern after reading a few articles, maybe they'll take steps to help him." - 2kidsnomoney---
"NOR. I'm sorry to say this, OP, but your brother has not been socialized normally. He is a chronically online loser who thinks he can do and say whatever he wants and does not understand there are no consequences because there are often no consequences when he does it in a league match or online."
"It frankly sounds like your concern for him and his future is budding into resentment and contempt, and I feel like, as most brothers would, those are not the feelings you want to hold towards him."
"I have a brother like this. He was diagnosed as an adult with Asperger’s and now just a spectrum autism diagnosis, but he’s a real a**."
"You may have to unblock him to communicate fairly. It may be worth doing this in person because it’s easier for the chronically online to 'craft' their retort rather than be a part of a conversation."
"Before you can do that, though, you need to sit down with your parents. You need to explain and be able to articulate that:"
"1. His reaction to the wonderful news of you having another child crossed the line and was inappropriate."
"2. There need to be reasonable consequences or boundaries because you are no longer willing to put up with that."
"3. It is his call at this point whether or not he wants to be in your life and your children’s lives."
"You have to have their buy-in; otherwise they are just going to continue to coddle and enable this behavior."
"Then you need to sit down with him and your parents, intervention style. You need to present the same argument you did to your parents, and in all honestly, I would question him in return: what was he hoping would have been the outcome of that conversation?"
"Did he want you to say he’s so right, so smart? Did he want you to go to your wife and tell her to abort? Does he feel like he is in a place in his life where he can be your family planner and manager? When he crosses a line, what does he feel should happen?"
"Only when he is directly confronted, and you have the right supports in place, can he be presented with how his behavior affected you and what that could possibly mean for his relationship with you and your growing family." - allison_mossie
The subreddit understood feeling burdened by so much negative information during what should be a happy time of planning and anticipating a new addition to the family, but the OP needed time to think about what he wanted his larger family dynamic to look like.
That might mean removing his brother, so that the OP could protect his own, and by extension, his wife's and children's, mental health, but it might mean minimizing contact with other people, too, if they weren't willing to respect the OP's boundaries he had for his family's life.