What's in a name?
Some people will say... everything.
It's a first impression.
It's a calling card.
It's identity.
Others will say... it's just a name. Who cares?
A lot of people, that's who.
Case in point...
Redditor djdkgjeis wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the “Am I The A**hole” (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for shutting down all black names because I think it'll make my son's life harder?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My husband and I are having a baby."
"I'm mixed race, half black and half white."
"My husband is black."
"We don't know the gender yet but my husband prefers names that most people would call black names for boys."
"Names like Trayvon, DeVonte, Marquis, etc."
"I grew up with a name that is tied to black culture and hated it for most of my life."
"I go by a shortened form of my name professionally (i.e Dee for Denaisha) because I have seen how people react to my government name."
"I am sure I have been passed up for jobs because of how people perceive my name."
"My husband has a name more commonly used for white boys (i.e Jake)."
"He wants a strong black name for our son because he never had that and believes that giving him a 'white' name to avoid racism isn't helping anyone."
"I don't disagree but don't want to use our son as a test dummy to change that."
"This has become a battle."
"I know that we both need to agree on a baby name but..."
"AITA for writing off all black names?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You’re The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NAH. You both have perfectly valid points."
"Why not give him one as a first and one as a middle name?"
"That way they'll both be his legal names and he can make his own choice when he's old enough to understand." ~ Acatinmylap
"The point the husband is trying to make for naming his son a black name is to help have him have pride in his race, and to kind of give the message that it is okay to be black."
"Naming him something white to benefit his future is a way to stay complicit with how the present is."
"Instead of naming your kid something white, why don't we all work to change the bias there is towards black names?"
"I'm not trying to say that they should name him one type of name or the other, but that's a pretty crap reasoning to give a kid a 'white name.'"
"They should pick something that they both like and not focus on what the connotations are."
"The people who don't involve themselves in the change are the reason it doesn't happen." ~ __Kassanova__
"I’m all for working to change the bias that exists in our society."
"But the needle is still moving pretty slowly and in the meantime."
"We still have to live in the world as it is."
"I don’t blame OP for wanting to be pragmatic and think about what her kids’ lives will be like if change doesn’t come as quickly as we want it to." ~ REDDIT
"I don’t have kids yet, but I’m looking for gender neutral names (like Alex), because when you work in S[cience], T[echnology], E[ngineering], and M[athematicsto] have a name that is obviously female can put your resume in the trash."
"I will not fight for females rights using my children as ammunition."
"I think the same applies in this case. Definitely NTA." ~ Pame_in_reddit
"I do have kids and this conversation comes up frequently with my husband."
"We want change in the world but we're not willing to risk our kids or their futures by experimenting with things like this (one of us is a P[erspn] O[f] C[olor], one of us isn't)."
"Like a commenter said up this thread a bit, why put your kid's life on hard mode?"
"I totally agree with you (though I don't think OPs husband is TA so my vote is actually NAH)."
"And to those who would say I'm part of the problem, that's okay if you think that."
"I don't answer to anyone about my choices for my family except to my family - they live with these choices, not you." ~feistyfoodie
"I think I would put the white name first, black name second, but then call the kid by the black name from the start."
"That way they’ll be more likely to identify with the black name, which seems to be what the dad is most concerned with."
"But can use their 'official' first name for resumes (which addresses more of the mom’s concerns)."
"I feel like it would be weirder to drop your first name for a middle name on a resume if you still go by your first name."
"But putting your 'official' first name and then saying 'that’s my legal name, but everyone calls me by my middle name' would seem pretty normal."
"Although you’ve got a point about the spelling and pronunciation, so maybe ditch everything I just said." ~ CanIBeWillyWonka
"NAH... but that doesn't solve the hiring issue."
"Resumes have full names and she pointed out her main issue is the jobs child could lose."
"Like Jacob Stephen Smith will get job before Jacob Devonte Smith."
"Sad but true OP should explain how she disliked growing up with her name."
"I also have a made up name (my mom added extra letters to a traditional name) and it has definitely effected job opportunities."
"With my child I chose a very classic sounding name and although she is still in school I feel like her name is received positively."
"Also as someone who had her name mispronounced at every award and graduation ceremony, don't do that to this innocent baby!" ~ asystmd
OP returned with an update...
"I posted a month ago about a dilemma my husband and I were having with our baby's name."
"We had already decided on a girl's name because it honors his mother but we're stuck on a boy's name."
"My husband thought it was important for our son to have a name strongly tied to black American culture."
"I wanted a more neutral name since I am biracial and grew up with a stereotypical black name."
"We found out we are having a boy and decided on his name."
"His name will be... Miles Trayvon."
"We thought it was a perfect compromise."
"My husband's family tends to use middle names a lot so he'll probably be 'Tray' to most of them."
"When he's in school his name will just be listed as Miles (last name)."
"He can officially be Miles T."
"(Last name) if he doesn't want to use Trayvon but he can also easily go by Trayvon if he feels more connected to that name."
"This option gives him the choice, which my husband and I agreed was important."
"My husband hated growing up with a stereotypical white boy name and said it caused some ribbing from people in his community who saw him as being less black."
'He talked about how in 8 Mile Eminem's character says something like, 'This guy's a gangsta? His real name is Clarence.'"
"That's not to say my husband ever wanted to be a gangsta."
"He's an actuary, lol but he said he felt like his name played a role in further isolating him from his black peers growing up."
"I had the opposite experience."
"My mom is white and my dad is black."
"They decided on a stereotypical black name and I think it made my life harder."
"Professionally I go by a nickname and I do personally as well."
"When talking about it with my husband I realized it started early."
"I remember being about 4 and being out with my white grandma."
"A woman came up to me, touched my hair, told my grandma I was beautiful, and then asked what my name was."
"Instead of saying my real name my grandma said, 'Her name is Daisy.'"
"I attended an H[istorically] B[lack] C[olleges] and U[niversities] and finally felt comfortable with my given name."
"But noticed a lot of seniors with black names used shortened versions of their names for job applications."
"For example, Raquan Smith would put 'Ray Smith.'"
"Demarcus Jones would put 'Marcus Jones.'"
"Keshawnda Nelson would put 'Shawna Nelson,' etc."
"They said you had to play within the system and I did that."
"Anyway, sorry for the long update."
"I just wanted to explain why this was such a big deal to both of us."
"We didn't really get deep into it until after I posted here so thanks for encouraging that dialogue."
"Before anyone says it, I do realize some people will connect Trayvon to Trayvon Martin."
"That's not why we are using it."
"I posted about this in namenerds and a lot of people were upset by it but I don't mean to offend anyone."
"It's a family name on my husband's side."
"Thanks for all the Direct Messages but please stop sending me articles about the woman named Marijuana Pepsi and the black Spider-Man named Miles."
"Thanks y'all."
Well OP, it sounds like you and the husband are going to be just fine.
It's great that y'all could figure this out peacefully.
This is a great start to your son's future already.
Congrats and Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp