For families who live far away from each other, sometimes even countries away, arrangements to be able to see them can be difficult to make.
Not to mention costly, stressed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor Throwra_twc was at a loss when his wife insisted on taking their newborn overseas to meet her family, but at a tremendous cost.
When she was furious with him for sharing his concerns, the Original Poster (OP) wondered if he wasn't being supportive of his wife and in-laws.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for not agreeing to let my wife travel internationally with our baby daughter?"
The OP's wife's family wanted to make their newborn daughter.
"We have a 10-month-old daughter, our first child. I am born and raised in the US while my wife's family is from Asia."
"After our daughter was born, my wife's family has not had the chance to see her. My wife hasn't seen her family in about 2 years as well."
"Except for her sister and brother who live in the same city like us, the rest of her family is in Asia."
His wife wanted to make arrangements to go visit them.
"She wanted to plan a trip to visit them with the baby. She wanted to leave around the end of April initially."
"Initially, I was 100% on board with it. We are not financially well-off, so in order to pay for her trip, I have been working close to 60 hours for the past 3 months. I was putting my money and actions where my mouth is."
"Things got complicated when she wanted to celebrate our daughter's first birthday away from me."
"She now wants to leave 1 week before her initial plan so our daughter can celebrate her birthday with her parents and family back home, while I would still be in the US."
"She also wants to now go for about 4 months."
The OP wasn't so sure about these new plans.
"I had multiple discussions with her. I explained to her that I want to be with my daughter for her 1st birthday. I also do not want to spend such a long time away from her."
"I want to watch my daughter grow up. I don't want to miss her first moments."
"I cannot make this trip with her due to finances. We both cannot afford to stop working at the same time."
"We are barely keeping afloat, especially with how expensive the trip will be. Her taking such a long time off work is also not financially feasible."
His wife wanted to find a way to make it work.
"Her response was that I should come for a week with her, celebrate our daughter's birthday, and then go back."
"Her family lives on a remote island between Asia mainland and Australia."
"It's a 2-day trip each way, costing more than $4000 dollars in tickets, not counting pandemic shenanigans."
"So her expectation is that I travel for 4 days, stay for 3 days, and spend $4,000, rather than her delaying her trip by a week."
"She is now calling me a controlling, misogynic a**hole who is not supportive of her."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some completely understood the OP's concerns regarding the family's finances.
"My parents emigrated to a country 8000 miles away then had us kids. They had so many family members in their country of origin who were desperate to meet us but they couldn't afford to go so that was that. And this was in the days before Skype and WhatsApp."
"The OP's wife needs to just accept that she needs to hold off on these plans until their finances are better." - Dashcamkitty
"This will sound harsh, but you can't afford this. You can't afford the initial trip, and certainly not the proposed extended version."
"You have a kid now. You need an emergency fund. You need life insurance. If something happens to you, your family is effed. My family sure was when my dad died unexpectedly."
"It sucks to be away from family for so long, but these days, it's at least a shared agonizing experience worldwide. Your wife needs to wait until you have savings and you can all go together."
"Draining your savings is not an option, you both need to put your daughter first and yourselves second." - icecreamp*nis
"It honestly sounds like none of you should go. Blowing through savings for a trip is pretty much never the right thing to do."
"You're barely getting by, you have a new child. You absolutely will encounter random large costs."
"If you can't cover them, bad things will happen. Either you won't have a car or won't have heat or something. Your child's well-being and financial security is not worth this trip." - taybay462
"As the family has money issues, they could guilt her to stay back with your daughter to ensure steady money comes in via support. Say 'NO' to this trip."
"You're working 50+ hours a week, have depleted your savings, and won't see your daughter for months… that's not normal. If your wife wants to go for months at a time, let her. By herself." - SkittlesNPumps
Others agreed and empathized with the OP for not wanting to be away from his baby.
"NTA. There is nothing controlling or misogynistic about not wanting to be separated from your baby for 4 months."
"The issue isn't the travel itself, it's the length of time you'd be separated and the emotional and financial strain that will put on you and the family. That puts your wife in major AH territory." - Sk111W
"When I was 1, my mom left a month to go to another state to look for housing and a job. When she came back, I did not recognize her at all and was aloof towards her."
"It broke her heart that I seemingly didn't care about her anymore, but I was just a 1-year-old and long-term memory hasn't set in yet."
"Can't imagine not seeing your little baby for 4 months and then when you finally do see her you're a total stranger to them."
"That's if OP ever sees her again. The short trip suddenly turned into a long trip is very suspicious." - GoodQueenFluffenChop
"Can we also talk about the fact that there's still a pandemic going on and there aren't currently any vaccines approved for 1-year-olds?"
"Traveling internationally is a bad idea during the pandemic for many many reasons, but what if in those 4 months, there are more travel restrictions?"
"What if your wife and child end up quarantined for longer and you miss even more of your child's formative time? Your wife is being entirely reckless and unreasonable." - Wynfleue
"That's your baby's first birthday too, it isn't just your wife's child. Most fathers, the good ones at least, wouldn't be OK with missing their baby's first birthday."
"Your wife is being really selfish and only thinking of her origin family and not the family she's made with you."
"I don't see how she could possibly be serious about you being selfish or controlling, and if you were misogynistic, she wouldn't be going on this trip solo, or possibly at all for that matter. Misogynistic men don't take their wives' feelings into consideration ever, about anything."
"I think she knew full well she was asking for way too much and was trying to just throw out a bunch of buzzwords to see if she could gaslight you into thinking you're the one who's out of line, because selfish, controlling, and misogynistic are literally the 3 qualities that you could not possibly be described as here."
"NTA" - randomusername71175
A few were worried the OP's wife had ulterior motives for this trip.
"He worked himself half to death to pay for her original shorter trip, and he said that was with her full-time salary also helping."
"In other words, his wife expects him to work 100+ hours a week so that she can go on a 4-month-long vacation."
"And also, which Asian country is this? What are their extradition laws? This is getting fishy, and if I was OP, I'd be worried my wife is planning on taking my child away and staying there." - TheDerbLerd
"I would be worried about extradition laws. I don't know anything about this family and their relationship, but there have been numerous court cases like this, where one parent takes the child out of the country and then doesn't return. Does OP have any recourse if mom extends her trip further?" - redrosehips
"The SECOND that baby lands in a foreign country, the odds of getting her back (if the mother doesn't want to return with her) are slim to none."
"Few if any countries will enforce a US custody order. Especially, if the order was not in place when the mother took the child and she gets a contradictory order in her own country."
"NTA - and your wife's behavior seems very fishy to me. I would not let her leave the country with your child until you can accompany them for the entire trip (or you and your wife are on much better terms). I'd also recommend you secure baby's passport." - beeeeeebee
"Yeah no, I think if she leaves with the baby, he'll never see either of them again. If I were OP, I'd move that money into an account she can't access, tell her to get a job to afford to pay for THEM to fly over here, and leave it at that."
"They can do a Zoom birthday party with her family. NTA." - crystallz2000
"I don't think she wants to kidnap the child but I do think she misses her parents especially as she just had a baby and also that she wants to be celebrated and spoiled. Maybe also some competition with her siblings?"
"In any case, it's a tantrum more than a justified need. She needs to put her family as in your kid and yourself, before her parents."
"I guess she lacks some maturity so nothing major so far but still careful as there are some 'spoiled princess' vibes coming out... Talk and talk some more like grown-ups do."
"NTA obviously." - Afraid-Tea-5745
"NTA. Holy sh*t OP, you're NTA."
"I was gonna come here and tell you about the additional costs involved due to COVID restrictions (coming from someone living in Asia) but I saw all the comments about extradition and kidnapping which never even crossed my mind."
"Please do not allow your wife to do this, 4 months is a long time for a visit, that's practically staying there. Is she planning to work there in the meantime?"
"Have you had a discussion about finances at all? Does she know how much of an extra toll this is going to be on your finances as a family?"
"I hope you have a long conversation about this as $4k for a trip is not cheap, and a huge chunk of your cash flow."
"Aside from that, as someone living in Asia there are some of the additional COVID costs you can expect. Bear in mind that most of Asia is only JUST starting to open their borders for tourism, and there are so many hoops and obstacles to go through."
"Pre Departure Tests (US) - Most likely you need to get a PCR test not a rapid test, depending on the country's requirements. $100"
"On Arrival Tests (Arrival Country) - this would depend on the country, but is usually a PCR - $150"
"Quarantine Costs - some countries allow you to isolate at home, some do not. You mentioned your wife is from a remote island, so I assume she needs to fly into a capital city, quarantine there, before travelling to her hometown."
"On average let's take a 10 day quarantine at a hotel — 10 nights * $100 = $1000"
"Transport Costs - Airport to quarantine facility - $50"
"And this doesn't even include the costs if your baby needs testing. I think this depends on age but it does differ from country to country."
"Aside from that, all the paperwork you'd need to do — applying for entry into the country, submitting vaccination documents, not to mention visa applications if needed for your child to enter the country, transit requirements if transiting in another country etc..."
"Just my two cents on what to expect travelling to Asia, during a pandemic, AND with a baby. It's no walk in the park."
"Good luck OP, I hope you manage to talk some sense into your wife." - xxkrysiexx
While the OP was more worried about what his wife was accusing him of, the subReddit had much larger concerns.
They were worried about the financial and emotional implications for the family, but they also pondered what was going on behind the surface, things that the OP himself might not know.
Whether or not there was something going on, though, it was hardly the time for a trip if it meant spending every last penny to get there.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp