Content Warning: Dating, grooming, possible assault
Though this isn't something most parents want to think about or admit, there will come a day when their children are old enough, mature enough, and interested enough to date.
It's their job to make sure their children are safe and take all necessary precautions, while also having fun, agreed the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
When his daughter was preparing to go on her first date, Redditor Downtown_Ant_1320 had one simple request for her.
When she was unwilling to fulfill it, the Original Poster (OP) decided to teach her an important lesson.
He asked the sub:
"AITA for making my daughter cancel her date?"
The OP's daughter recently wanted to go on her first date.
"I'm a single dad and have been for about nine years now. My daughter is 13 and is the single greatest thing to ever happen to me."
"About a week ago, she said that this boy in her class wanted to know if she would be up to grab a pizza on that Saturday."
"We don't really do anything for Thanksgiving, so logistically, it worked out. She agreed to it."
The OP had one condition for the date.
"When she told me about this, I said that I wanted to meet this guy."
"She immediately got annoyed and asked why."
"I said that if a guy is asking my daughter out, I just want to be able to put a face to a name."
"I promised her it was not going to be some goofy 'the dad interrogates the boyfriend and acts all scary' schtick."
"I told her to tell him I wanted to meet him and just say, 'Hi.'"
"She told me she had told him."
But the date didn't go according to plan.
"But Saturday came around, and I saw her heading towards the door."
"I tell her to hold up and asked where her date was."
"She said he was outside and that they were going to bike ride to the pizza place."
"I asked why he wasn't coming to the door."
"She first told me he was nervous and didn't know what he'd say to me."
"I told her that, 'Nice to meet you' is a good start."
"Her story changed, and she told me he just 'didn't see why' I have to meet him."
"I reiterated my 'why' to her and asked her to go get him."
"She broke down and told me that she lied to me. She never told him I wanted to meet him because she thought it was 'stupid' that I wanted to meet him."
The OP stuck to his condition.
"I told her to text him that the date was off."
"She said I wasn't allowed to do that."
"I asked her again to tell him."
"She started getting teary-eyed, texted him, told me I was mean and that she hated me, and went to her room."
"When I told my sister what'd happened, she thought I was in the wrong and said I should've let my daughter go on the date."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought the OP had done the right thing.
"After my freshman year of college, I was back at my parents for the summer, and a guy asked me on a date."
"My dad said he wanted to meet him, and when I told the guy, he was SO EXCITED about it and made this whole plan for meeting them. It was super funny."
"OP, you're NTA. I wish your daughter could see where you're coming from, but like other commenters are saying, communication is key." - Aggressive-Tale-7737
"I have a 17-year-old. She has always had boundaries, her friends and dates have always had to meet me before she could go anywhere with them. I take the time to explain why I have the expectations that I do, I give her the opportunity to share her thoughts and I guess negotiate (not sure if there's a better way to describe it) so her feelings on things are validated."
"Sometimes we adjust and sometimes we don't if it's a hard boundary. Other than being late for curfew a few times she doesn't violate those boundaries. She tells me everything (more than I actually want to know sometimes) and her friends all love me and are at my house all the time."
"So yes, I do think that if her dad takes the time to explain why he has those rules in place in a way that she can understand and appreciate, then she won't automatically resort to sneaking around and lying after this. NTA.." - magnolia0317
"NTA.."
"As a parent, my kids don't go anywhere with anyone I don't know. Period. I don't care if it's a date, I don't care if it's for a school function, etc."
"Why do I need to know? Your safety. Period. That's my job as your parent." - Intelligent-Ask-3264
"NTA. He wasn't going to interrogate the kid, just shake his hand and say, 'Nice to meet you. Enjoy your pizza.' This is absolutely not too much to ask." - BlackDogOrangeCat
"My first boyfriend was a senior while I was a freshman (so I had just turned 15 and he was almost 18), but I absolutely let my parents meet him officially before he took me to that first dance."
"My mom had known him since he was in grade school because she did his speech therapy and his family was well-known in the community, but they still wanted to shake his hand and make sure that he was going to be respectful (he was)."
"Was it embarrassing at the time? Absolutely! But I was 15, so everything my parents did was embarrassing."
"That was 20 years ago and I'm still glad they did that. He was absolutely harmless (until he left for college and fell for someone else, haha), but they could have easily saved me from some serious hurt if they hadn't cared." - KathrynTheGreat
"She's 13! He's already giving her more freedom than a lot of dads would give their daughters at that age. And he only had one requirement, which was an incredibly reasonable one."
"Her lie says one of two things. Either she's too unfair to date if she wouldn't even give the guy a choice to meet this requirement, or she knows he's someone that would not agree to that requirement, meaning he's not a good person to date in the first place."
"OP, as a former 13-year-old girl, I can tell you she'll hate you for a little while (while still loving you with all her heart), but she'll get over it."
"Try sitting down and talking to her about your reasons for having this rule once things are calmer. Maybe even get her to listen to a few true crime podcasts!"
"And then tell her about the time I had lived out of home for more than 10 years, had a child, married, divorced, a 5-year relationship after that, and my mum STILL was furious I hadn't told her I was going to stay the night at a new guy's place without telling her because 'he could be an axe murderer!' (I was in my late 30s!)."
"Parents only put these rules in place because they love you and want to keep you safe, especially at 13."
"OP, you're a good dad. NTA." - ifelife
Others agreed and theorized why the daughter had lied about her date.
"The daughter was being sneaky for a reason."
"Hopefully, it's something as innocent as 'I just want privacy regarding my age-appropriate friends.'"
"But when I was seeing people who were age-appropriate, whether I met them online or in school, I was transparent with my parents. When I was sneaky, I was 16 talking to a 36-year-old." - elvaholt
"My friend started seeing a 25-year-old man when we were 14 or 15 years old. She thought it was cool that he was interested in her."
"We didn't think much of it at the time. I am horrified to think back to it and am happy nothing happened between them more than a simple kiss. This man was a predator and had a baby with an 18-year-old less than a year later."
"Please always meet every person that your daughter is going out with and impress upon her that it is not cool when an older man is interested in her (not that this date was definitely an old man but it does happen)." - himym101
"Peer pressure is tough, but it's never been so bad that I didn't want my parents to be seen in their own house or their own car by my friends."
"I put my money on the boy being a lot older than she is letting on, and she wants to appear more mature or independent in an effort to impress him and also doesn't want OP to know how old he is." - htownaway
"NTA. If she can't handle asking him to meet her parent, she isn't mature enough to be alone with a person you don't know." - Excellent_Care1859
"The number of people who don't realize this could have been some 30-year-old man she was going out with clearly are thinking like lazy parents."
"You don't just let your kids go where ever, with whomever. Especially when safety isn't something they aren't practiced in, like a 13-year-old on a first date ever. Double if they straight-up lied about stuff."
"A kid who hasn't ever been in a situation where they are in real danger won't even consider their mortality or the possibility of what harm could come upon them."
"It's literally hardwired into all of us to encourage us to be explorative in our formative years. It's only experience, preparation, and negative stimuli that rewire that part of our brains to be cautious."
"Thousands of teenagers a year get preyed upon because they think they'll be just fine and they can just 'walk away' if they don't feel safe. That's why YOU are responsible for their safety even if THEYRE the ones taking the risks."
"That's why it's a parent's responsibility to ensure they understand they aren't invincible and should consider their safety, even when dating people who seem okay."
"So yes, no s**t it's probably just another kid. The point is you teach your kids safe habits so they don't develop unsafe ones and make sure they're on the right track to independence."
"She's allowed to be embarrassed by her dad insisting on meeting her date, but that doesn't discount him from looking out for her well-being, and the lying was an absolutely terrible indicator she likely would hide anything that may be dissatisfactory to him if she thinks it's fine."
"Keyword, 'thinks.' Refer back to where I said kids literally don't consider their mortality or safety. She had one requirement and she didn't meet it, so she showed she isn't ready to care for her own well-being."
"The chance he's a weirdo or much older kid is probably less than 1/1000, but again, rolling the dice is for bad and/or lazy parents." - Grimwohl
While not all of the subReddit thought that there were ulterior motives at play, they were able to agree that the OP had made a small and reasonable enough request that his daughter should have been willing to uphold, so she could go enjoy her date.
But for those who were worried about darker explanations behind the daughter's behavior, they hoped that the OP would have follow-up conversations with her that would teach her more about safety and precautions, especially in her newfound dating world.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp