Relationships with in-laws are sticky to say the least.
Occasionally those relationships end due to divorce, and for some that is cause for celebration.
Redditor Open_Tiger9919 did just that, but is now facing some scrutiny.
This led them to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) for feedback.
They asked:
"AITA for having a celebration dinner after my brother's divorce?"
They went on to tell their story.
"My brother just got his divorce finalized."
"No one in the family liked his wife."
"She was not a nice person, ie, she'd ask for ideas on what to 'spend his money on', was the type of person that celebrated her birthday for 2 weeks and expected everyone to do the same."
"There were many arguments over that when people in our family didn't show up for each and every event she planned or wore the shirts she'd make for her birthday…"
"…interrupt when people were talking to talk about herself, go running to our mother anytime she asked for something and my brother told her no."
"The tipping point was when our mother was going through chemo- she had issues with her feet swelling and would elevate them while resting on the couch" "
The one time we all came to visit my brother brought his wife and she just took the pillow out from under mom's feet to use it in the chair she was in because she was tired."
"Aside from expressing our concerns when they first started dating, we never said anything to him and tolerated her for his sake to not push him away and just griped amongst ourselves."
"Now they're divorced." "
The day that it was finalized, I took my brother out for dinner and invited some of our friends that hadn't been able to see him because of his wife."
"While we were at the restaurant I toasted his new chapter in life. Someone said "Real classy" and it turned out one of ex-SIL's friends now works at the restaurant."
"We finished our dinner, left, went out for a while longer. I got home and while watching a show with my wife, my phone was going off with notifications."
"All messages from my ex-SIL chewing me out for celebrating their divorce."
"Since my wife wanted to know who was messaging me, I showed her the messages and she's of the mind that while she understands why no one liked my ex-SIL, celebrating their divorce and toasting it was a prick move."
"She thought I had been exaggerating when I said I was taking my brother out to celebrate. It's been a few days and my wife is still shaking her head at me over it."
"AITA?"
"NTA"
"There could have been balloons and cake but you kept it low key, it's not your fault ex SIL friend grassed you up." - CrystalQueen3000
"NTA. You should have gotten T-shirts made and celebrated for 2 weeks!" - ProseParagraph
"NTA"
"Why is your ex SIL able to contact you? As much as you didn't like her, I'd have her blocked ages ago. Lol" - DJ4116
"NTA. What matters is your brother's feelings on the issue."
"I would be calling the restaurant to report that worker for ruining your night out. I would let them know you ended up moving to another venue because of her hostility." - Username19611691
"She took a pillow from a cancer patient. I'd celebrate getting that person out of my life. NTA." - LazsloAndNadja
"Let's be real here, celebratory dinners are for special events in people's lives."
"The only way this celebration could have possibly been a prick move would have been if ex-SIL worked at this restaurant and you took your brother there to celebrate in spite of her."
"That is not what happened here."
"Regardless of ex-SILs personality, there was nothing classless about this as you described it. It is 100% a new chapter in his life."
"NTA" - Good_From_70
"Nta. Divorce parties are great crack! Threw one for a friend for her divorce. Was an absolute blast" - Downtown_Age9108
"NTA. I hope you skipped the tip as well, staff shouldn't be eavesdropping and chiming in. Nor should they be telling people you were at their restaurant."
"Celebrating a divorce finalization is normal. It's meant to cheer the person up (if needed) and show support." - Grand-Corner1030
"NTA. Sounds like you had every reason to celebrate your brother's return to reasonable life."
"Please tell me there are no kids in that equation - there's not going to be any reasonable coparenting with someone like your brother's ex." - JsCTmav
"Nah man, NTA. She was bad for him, he's free now, you love him, you celebrate his freedom."
"You're not celebrating a divorce, you're celebrating a new chapter."
"Also, ex-SIL probably doesn't like it because no one is throwing her a divorce party, but if it were to happen, I really doubt she would have a problem with it." - Embarrassed_Olive_65
"'The tipping point was when our mother was going through chemo- she had issues with her feet swelling and would elevate them while resting on the couch.'"
"'The one time we all came to visit my brother brought his wife and she just took the pillow out from under mom's feet to use it in the chair she was in because she was tired.'"
"I'm sorry, what? That is feral behavior. It sounds like she should count herself lucky that she did not get every single strand of hair snatched from her head for that."
"Does your wife know this lady literally snatched a pillow from a woman undergoing chemo?"
"Because, imo, someone who does that deserves no courtesy or kindness and your wife calling that a prick move would make me side eye her pretty hard."
"Also, the manager of that restaurant would be getting an earful from me about that nosy employee who eavesdropped on a conversation and intentionally stirred up drama." - False-Guess
"NTA, what are you supposed to do, insist that your brother mope and be sad?"
"You looked for the positive in the situation, and treating it like a new chapter is a healthy, normal thing to do."
"And since neither SIL nor her nosy friend were invited to this celebration, it's none of their business. Your wife is being too judgy."
"Congratulations on getting these people out of your lives. Cheers!" - SquatCobbbler
"NTA"
"Celebrating transitions and milestones is always appropriate." - tuttkraftverk
"NTA. You obviously didn't know about the SIL friend working at the restaurant."
"It doesn't sound much like "celebrating," it is a new chapter in his life, even if the divorce was amicable on both sides. I would not respond to SIL's msgs. Forget it and move on." - stroppo
"NTA. Tons of people celebrate when they get a divorce. I don't know why you should have to worry about ex-SIL's feelings at all here. If bro wasn't offended, then you're good." - idontcare8587
"NTA."
"You could have actually been celebrating the divorce, or you could have been trying to lighten the mood - the observer has no idea, they just wanted to create some drama."
"If the marriage was as toxic as it sounds, a celebratory dinner was not out of line." - SirMittensOfTheHill
"NTA"
"I have a friend going through a divorce, and I'm probably going to figure out how to take her out to celebrate when it's finalized."
"Divorces often take so long that the grieving process for the marriage is over by the time the divorce is granted." - PurpleMarsAlien
"NTA. Why not celebrate a new beginning? It has nothing to do with you not liking her but you cheering your brother up and motivating him to get on with his life." - bvoomy
"NTA. Your brother is the only one who gets any real input on this."
"The real kicker here is his reaction to the dinner and the friends he hadn't seen in a while."
"If his ex was isolating him, that's a serious red flag. Sounds to me like you had ample cause for celebration." - EvenSpoonier
"100% NTA."
"You have perfectly described the relationship my family has with my brother's wife, so, I truly understand the position you're in."
"Nothing wrong was done here at all. Your description of this "celebration" sounds very low key and respectful."
"I hope I get to have a celebration like this for my brother some day." - aramis604
"That's a tough one. As a married man I have to say keep the peace at home but on the same token it makes no sense for her to be mad."
"It's almost as if she is taking your former sister-in-law's side here. Does she think it's immature or unnecessary?"
"You did the right thing in my eyes celebrating your brother's freedom from the wrong person."
"That's not a prick move, it was a relief for you, your family, and friends and it deserved a moment out to distract and focus on better times ahead."
"NTA." - Mjolnirthedestroyer
"Ya. Ur wife is cracked man. Its absolutely ok to toast the end of the old and the beginning of something new."
"You didn't slam the ex. Unless ur leaving out that part of the convo. NTA. Toast away." - Federal-Ferret-970
Hopefully there's not another divorce dinner around the corner 👀.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp