It's always sad when family members become estranged.
Perhaps the most difficult element is dealing with your feelings toward your estranged family members.
No matter how angry or hurt you are by them, they are still your family, and you often find yourself unable to completely let go of them.
Saddest of all are cases where people are unable to reconcile before one of these family members dies.
Redditor BitFlashy1566 had become estranged from his father at a young age.
As a result, when the original poster (OP) heard from him with sad news, he was understandably conflicted about his feelings.
Particularly, his announcement of something he wanted to bequeath to his grandchildren.
Unsure of how he wanted to handle this, the OP took to the subReddit "Would I Be The a**hole" (WIBTA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"WIBTA for refusing a large cash gift on behalf of my children?"
The OP explained how his own strained relationship with his father made him wonder if he could accept a gift he wanted to give to his own children.
"My two kids are 15 F[emale] and 13 F[emale].
"My dad very unceremoniously left our family when I turned 20."
"He wasn't a bad guy necessarily."
"To him, he fulfilled his obligation to raise me to an adult and wanted to cut ties and live his own life because he became a father very young."
"In the 25 years since he left, he's lived his dream with lots of travel."
"I know it shouldn't have affected me as much as it did, since I was an adult, but it devastated my mom, and he promised he'd keep in touch with all of us."
"He never did."
"Since then, I've only spoken to him 4 or 5 times, and I haven't met with him."
"My mom has never spoken to him again."
"This was all on his end: we tried to no avail."
"When I had kids of my own, we didn't pretend I didn't have a dad or he passed or anything like that."
"I was always forthright and told my daughters that he decided not to be a dad anymore, and it hurt grandma and me deeply."
"If my kids had any questions, I told them the truth about how it affected us, but also more menial things like how he was, who he was, and so on."
"My kids have a generally negative view of him, and they came to their own conclusions given all the facts with no hyperbole or sugarcoating."
"He emailed me to talk on the phone last week, and he told me he's dying of Stage 4 lung cancer."
"We talked a bit about him leaving, and he said he doesn't regret his decision because his life was 'taken from him'."
"He said he respects that I turned into a well-adjusted adult and he's proud that I've got so far, even without him, but that he doesn't love me and has no intention of seeing me before he goes."
"He did say, however, that he is dividing his assets between a few close friends and wanted to leave $25,000 each to both of my kids."
"He was a penny pincher but still lived modestly, he only ever worked to maintain, never to grow, so I don't doubt this is a large chunk of his total assets."
"He said it's only right that they get this money because they're his only grandchildren."
"I'm conflicted because accepting this money means, at least how my brain rationalizes it, that I forgive him or that it's okay or healthy to have lived how he did."
"I don't want my kids to get a lump sum and suddenly have a change of heart about him."
"I'm thinking of refusing the money on their behalf because it sets a bad example."
"My wife stands by my decision."
"They don't know about it, and my plan is to keep them in the dark about it, possibly forever."
"But WIBTA to my kids for taking this choice from them?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The OP's decision did not sit well with the Reddit community, who unanimously agreed he would be the a**hole if he deprived his children of his father's money.
Everyone agreed that the OP needed to put his own relationship with his father aside, and should only think about all the possibilities accepting this money could open for his children, with others pointing out how this could be a feeble step of his father showing repentance.
"YWBTA."
"25k for each is no petty change, they'd have a safety net to start in life."
"You shouldn't be punishing your kids for (understandably very grave) mistakes someone else made and they may come to resent you if they find out in the future."- Ari_ofAthens
"I do think YWBTA for putting your feelings before this financial freedom that you could offer your kids."
"Imagine 18-year-olds starting out with a nest egg like that."- Spare-Article-396
"Soft YTA."
"Damn, accept the money. I know it's hard, but at the end of the day, it's just money, and where it's from is pretty irrelevant if it helps your children get a good start in life."
"Your love for your children should be bigger than your hate for your dad."
"It doesn't have to mean you forgave him."
"You can make it clear to your child that he is still a bad person."- MaybeAWalrus
"Are you crazy?"
"TAKE THE F*CKING MONEY, don't let your emotions f*ck up a good thing!"
"Never turn down free money!"- DannyRand72
"YWBTA. take the money for your kids."
"Put it in a trust."
"This is money for college."
"This is money for a start in life."
"This is money that few people have access to."
"I get your hurt feelings but don't cause your kids to struggle more than they need to when they get older."
"I promise years from now when you see them saddle with debt that could have been at least partially avoided you will regret not taking it."- Psychological_Tap187
"This is why YTA."
"You're thinking about your own feelings and what it 'means' instead of how incredible it is to have that amount of money."
"It's 25 thousand dollars."
"25 thousand dollars that can be used to create a life."
"It doesn't matter what it means or how your brain rationalizes it, it's 25 thousand dollars you're effectively stopping your children from having just because you don't like the person giving it."
"That amount of money can change a life."
"I know I'm putting down the neglect with 'just because you don't like the person', but the point is that it doesn't matter how OP feels."- superanxietyrabies
"YWBTA to your kids."
"With all this man has taken from you, why not take his money to help your kids?"
"I don't think accepting the gift means you forgive him at all, it just means you're getting what your kids deserve."
"Take the damn money and forget the old man."
"He doesn't deserve your thoughts, but your kids deserve his money."- Little-Martha31204
"YWBTA."
"You said it yourself."
"You want to preserve your kids' negative opinion of him."
"That's very selfish of you."
"You want to ensure he dies without ever having done one single nice thing for your kids."
"Out of spite, you're going to punish your kids because of being mad at your father."
"And, if your kids ever find out, you're the one they'll be mad at."
"Sounds like a bad idea to me."- throw05282021
"YTA."
"He has been honest."
"He's not asked you for anything, and he's giving away what he's got to people he thinks will benefit from it."
"Fair enough."
"If I won the lottery and offered you 25k for each of your kids with no strings attached would you take it?"
"That's what you have here."
"A no strings attached gift to your kids from a stranger."- Fit_General7058
"YWBTA."
"Look, if your Dad was going to live and he offered a large cash gift for your children, I would understand not wanting to accept it if you felt he would use that as leverage to force some sort of relationship."
"But he's not."
'He's dying."
"This gift will only be given when he's dead."
"There is no way for him to use this gift against you, if he wants to believe you saying 'yeah, when you die, my kids will accept whatever money you leave them' is equivalent to 'I forgive you for emotionally abandoning me', that's on him."
"You can correct him you want to, or not, but only you can decide if accepting that money actually means you forgive him."
"And you don't, so that's that."
"Unless you are already incredibly independently wealthy, $25k for each of your children can and will make a significant difference in their lives."
"The only 'downside' to accepting this money is your own anxiety around what he will think it means."
"And gently, he has made it clear to you, throughout your entire life and again in your phone call last week, that he doesn't love you, that he doesn't want to be a parent to you, and that he doesn't regret his actions."
"And I've gotta be real: that is f**king heartbreaking."
"I'm appalled he felt comfortable telling you all that while on his deathbed, but that knowledge should set you free."
"Because he isn't worried about dying without your forgiveness, he doesn't think he did anything that needs forgiveness."
"He doesn't want to make amends."
"So I genuinely do not believe that accepting this gift on your children's behalf will have any underlying meaning to him because he's not looking for anything other than to get his affairs in order."
"And while I understand this is really emotional and heavy for you and don't fault you for feeling conflicted, ultimately this is about what is best for your kids, not what is easiest for you."- El_Ren
It's understandable, given the OP's history with his father, that he doesn't want to hold on to any sort of reminder of him.
However, even if this can't make up for his past behavior, the OP shouldn't ignore the fact that his father wants to contribute towards his grandchildren's future.
A small and significant gesture all at once.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp