It's always sad when people become estranged from their families.
It's also confusing for those who remain close with their families, as they begin to wonder why exactly they became estranged.
Often further complicating matters is when we unexpectedly meet estranged family members of friends or loved ones, and aren't able to find anything about them which would explain why no one wants to be around them.
The boyfriend of Redditor aita_talkedtomother was not close with his family, and never gave any indication as to why with the original poster (OP).
A chance encounter with her boyfriend's mother didn't help at all in offering an explanation to the OP, and only ended up causing a rift in their relationship.
Wondering if she was responsible for things escalating, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole", where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for talking to my BF's estranged mother without his permission?"
The OP explained how her boyfriend's estrangement from his family was always a mystery, and she only became further confused by it after meeting his mother.
"I'm (26 F[emale]) a PhD student and I have been dating Sam (29 M[ale]) for the last 3 years."
"Early on into the relationship he told me that he's not close (NC) with his family."
"I’ve asked him why, but he said that it’s not something that he wants to discuss."
"I haven't brought it up since then, and he hasn't dropped any hints as to why."
"I was at a conference this past weekend where one of the keynote speakers had Sam’s rather uncommon last name."
"I texted him a picture of the flyer and asked 'Lmao is this your long-lost aunt or something?'"
"He texted me back saying 'No, that’s my mom'.”
"I talked briefly with Sam's mom during the Q and A session that followed her presentation."
"She was so nice and patient when answering my questions that I started to wonder why Sam was NC with her."
"After I came home from the conference, I told Sam that I talked to his mom and that she seemed really nice."
"He dropped his fork on the floor and completely blew up at me."
"He accused me of 'betraying' him even though I told him that she had no idea who I was and that I talked to her to ask questions about her research."
"He also said that him being NC with his family automatically meant that I was forbidden from talking to them without his permission."
'I was so scared because I've NEVER seen him get angry or raise his voice at ANYTHING. I booked an Uber to a friend's place and told him that I'm staying with said friend until he gives me a genuine apology and an explanation as to why he's NC with his family."
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You’re The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
While the Reddit community was somewhite divided on the issue, everyone generally agreed that the OP was ultimately the a**hole for how she handled the situation.
While some felt that the OP's boyfriend overreacted, and the OP did nothing wrong by speaking to her in the manner she did and she was valid in feeling that he should be open with her as to why he's not close with his family, nearly everyone agreed that the OP was wrong to make assumptions about his mother based on one chance meeting, and shouldn't have pestered him about it.
"YTA."
"After one brief work-related conversation with a stranger, you no longer trust the judgement of your boyfriend of three years to determine if he should have contact with his mother."- SoSleepySue
"I think you were okay until you came back and told him she seemed really nice."
"You don’t know what went on between the two of them, and it really isn’t your business."
"Talking to her professionally is one thing, but that was on her professionally."
"It was a comment on her personality / personally."
"Soft YTA."-ndcollector
"YTA."
"How someone is in a professional setting doesn't mean that's how they are in their private life."
"You likely just came home and told your boyfriend that his abuser seemed really nice."
"Which is a horrible betrayal."
"Although I personally feel like he should be disclosing why he's NC as you have been together so long, you need to respect his boundary regardless."- Graves_Digger
"ESH / YTA."
"After 3 years of dating someone, you would think, hope, that they would open up enough to tell you why they are NC with their family."
"This isn't 6 months, or a year, at 3 years you are imagining your life with someone."
"Marriage."
"Kids."
"You both wouldn't be together if you didn't see a future together, and a part of your future includes his past."
"At some point that has to get addressed, or your relationship doesn't have a chance at survival."
"You didn't searching for his mom, as you explain this was happenstance."
"Unless you introduced yourself as his girlfriend, you didn't directly do any harm."
"Where you messed up IMO is by telling him 'I met your mom, and she seems nice!'."
"Depending on what happened to make him NC, hearing his girlfriend who he trusts saying that someone he has cut out of his life forever seems 'nice' had to be a knife to his heart."
"THEN, rather than trying to talk to him, you ran away, and demanded an apology."
"Without knowing any of the past history that made him NC."
"What if his family abandoned him at some point?"
"What if his mother did?"
"Without knowing his past trauma, you just did something that could be reopening all his wounds, while expecting him to apologize to you and open up a part of his life he never has before."-makethatnoise
"YTA:"
"She was so nice and patient with you while doing her job that you questioned his reason for NC?"
"That’s super naive and so disrespectful to your BF."
"The fact that you then went home and told him 'she’s really nice' blows my mind."
"It is a massive betrayal to him and what he went through to get to the point of going NC."
"People don’t stumble upon NC."
"It’s a huge decision For three years you never pressed the reason why and respected his boundaries."
"Now because you had one interaction with her and thinks she’s nice you feel your owed an explanation"
"I think knowing he is NC with his Mom that you went and talked to her anyway would seem like a betrayal to him."
"I personally would not have done it out of respect for my BF boundaries."- Nigglesscripts
"If she was a horrible child abuser she would naturally be a horrible abuser toward audience members at an academic conference."
"Since she wasn't, Sam is obviously just making it all up."
"YTA for leading with this."
"He told you he was NC with her."
"There is obviously some heavy reason behind this."
"But you lean into her being 'really nice', as if you can tell better than he can what his childhood experience was."
"Because you met his mother at a conference for a few minutes."
"Then you act all shocked and surprised that he found this upsetting."
"You're either being willfully dumb, intentionally hurtful, or both."
"I suggest calling the relationship off entirely, b/c you're not going to be able to handle whatever went on between Sam and his mom."
"You'll just end up minimizing it because 'that lady was so nice to me'."
"You simply lack the experience and perspective to understand that abusers get away with it for so long because of victim-blamers, who see the abusers in other settings, and say 'oh please, they would never hurt a child'."
"They're just so nice'." stdnormaldeviant
"YTA if what you said here is accurate."
"You don’t give away who you were or say anything personal about your bf."
"But the research talk seems safe."
"BUT."
"Your boyfriend told you it was his mom who you know he’s NC with."
"You absolutely shouldn’t have made any comment about how she was nice."
"You have no idea what the difference between he professional face and her private face is."
"I am on good terms with my kids, and even I have a much nicer 'professional' face than what my kids get."
"I have a different professional face than what my husband gets, and I love him dearly."
"But the person I am professionally is not WHO I AM."
"It’s who I am to get a paycheck."
"You have any idea how many times I smile and say 'sure!' to a colleague or boss while I’m cursing them out inside my head?"
"But my family gets me unfiltered."
"Now, imagine that scenario, but you’re talking about someone abusive."
"Your boyfriend wasn’t there."
"He’s obviously anxious about his non-relationship with his parents, and then you just dismissively tell him you thought she was nice?"
"Maybe she is."
"And maybe she’s an abusive asshole with a good public face."
"You don’t KNOW the difference."
"But you sure were dismissive of your boyfriend’s feelings about it."
"You know, I started this off as no a**holes but then talked myself out of it."-Jade_Echo
It's understandable why the OP might. have been confused by her boyfriend's difficult relationship with his mother after their chance meeting.
But that was one brief meeting, and first impressions can be famously misleading.
If the relationship between her boyfriend and his family isn't really the OP's business at the moment, it will eventually be if they're in this for the long term.
Leaving one to hope that the OP's boyfriend might shed some clarity on why they're not close with his family, and possibly lead the OP to watch her steps a bit more carefully going forward.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp