Birthday dinners are great… in theory.
Oftentimes the wreak more havoc than celebration.
This was, unfortunately, the case for Redditor youkickmydog613's wife.
A dinner disagreement on the Original Poster's (OP's) wife's birthday pushed him to subReddit "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA).
He asked,
"AITA for walking out of the restaurant during my wife's birthday dinner with her family. I'm feeling a bit guilty now."
He went on to explain.
"For context my wife's birthday was a few days ago, I took her out last weekend somewhere nice for just me and her to have lunch and I took her out and did a whole walk/hiking day which is her favorite thing to do."
"This weekend her parents wanted to take her out to dinner, wherever she wanted to go. She asked my opinion on it, and I simply answered 'literally anywhere except shoguns is fine'."
"She knows I don't like the restaurant, I just don't like the flavors."
"Her dad loves the place so we've been there often, every single time I have not liked it, so I came to the conclusion I just would stop going there."
"Spending $30 on a plate of food I won't eat seems ridiculous. Cue todays events, we went out with her parents and our kids, had a nice day together."
"Time comes to decide where we're going for dinner, wife and family says shoguns. I think 'okay, no big deal I'll just get a kids meal or something (chicken strips and fries)'."
"I remind my wife on the way to the restaurant that I don't plan on eating anything off the menu, but I would be more than happy to sit with everyone, enjoy the company, and I will order the chicken strips."
"She's happy, I'm happy, all good."
"Until we get to the restaurant that is."
"Turns out the kids meals are only for 10 and under, obviously I'm way over that age limit, so I thought 'no big deal, I'll just relax and enjoy the company, then I'll grab some food when we leave'."
"Oh no, according to shoguns policy you have to pay per person whether or not that person is eating."
"They wanted me to pay $10 to watch other people eat, when the kids meal would've only cost $7."
"So I asked again if I could just get the kids meal then, they refused, my wife was getting upset over the $10 charge for me to just sit there, so I told my wife I'm not paying $10 to watch everyone else eat dinner, f*ck that."
"So now I'm sitting outside in the car, my wife is mad at me, and my wife's parents I'm sure are not thrilled as well."
"I guess I'm just feeling guilty, so the real question here is AITA? Should I have paid the $10 to sit at the table and watch everyone eat food that I can't even stand the smell of?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
-
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided:
"NTA. She asked your opinion and you told her literally anywhere but shoguns."
"Why she chose it is anyone's guess, but it was a thoughtless thing to do, birthday or not. And she shouldn't be mad at you." - Few_Ad_5752
"I agree, one thing to be upset when the person had the opportunity to voice an opinion and they didn't, and when they did."
"NTA if your wife wanted to pick a place to appease family she shouldn't have asked an opinion and then got upset when said opinion isn't listened to."
"Especially when you were willing to eat something you would eat and chose, and then were denied because of policy."
"I get upscale, but if a grown man wants to pay for chicken strips, just let him... smh... you are getting money either way.." - FreshlyFistedDogAnus
"ESH."
"It's your wife's birthday, so you could easily just nibble on some vegetables or salad, or even just rice. You're an adult, and adults sometimes have just to suck it up and do stuff they don't want to."
"That being said, she's also the ah because who bothers asking your opinion and then choosing the one place you said you didn't want to go to?"
"She clearly didn't care what you thought, and even though it's her birthday, I'm sure she could have chosen another restaurant where everyone could have eaten something they enjoyed." - 10piepiek
"Let me get this straight….a restaurant won't serve you a kids meal unless you're a kid? WTF"
"What a sh*tty stupid restaurant. ESH."
"You should just order the cheapest plate anyway and sit there since you gotta pay anyhow. It sucks but it's not your day it's wife's." - FritosRule
"YTA. Wife's birthday & you made it about you. Most restaurants do not allow adults to order off kid's menus - pretty standard."
"'Should I have paid the $10 to sit at the table and watch everyone eat food that I can't even stand the smell of?' YES & stop trying to justify your behavior."
"They offer salads, and you could have ordered a salad/beverage or something for others to share." - Retirednursey
"NTA"
"She knows you're unable to eat the food and chose the restaurant anyway. Paying to watch others eat is dumb."
"She was rude for forcing you into the situation. She had a choice of anywhere but place x. She chose place x . Now is pushing you for the choice." - Forward_Nothing5979
"Yeah. YTA. $10 is a small price to pay on your wife's, birthday."
"Not your birthday, hers."
"You spent it as a petulant child, sulking away from everyone else, when you could have considered it her bday present." - maodiver1
"YTA. If it weren't her birthday, you wouldn't be TA."
"Nobody wants to go to a restaurant where they don't like any of the food. Nobody wants to pay to watch other people eat."
"But someone else's birthday, especially your wife's, isn't about what you want. It's incredibly selfish of you to ruin her birthday dinner over $10."
"And don't say it wasn't about the $10 because you were perfectly fine to sit there and not eat until they wanted you to pay $10."
"You thought taking a stand against a restaurant's dumb policy was more important than spending $10 not to ruin your wife's birthday." - 1or2throwaway
"Blown away by how many people are validating you lol. Your wife's birthday dinner with her parents isn't about what food you want."
"Your initial compromise was fair. When it became a matter of paying $10 to enjoy the experience with your family vs walking out, you were an AH for walking out."
"It caused a scene and was probably embarrassing for her. You could have picked at an appetizer or salad or just paid and griped internally."
"Doesn't matter if you already took her out to a celebratory lunch - that's like the bare minimum. Your actions showed that your wife's night wasn't worth $10. Very poor form." - knapen50
"I feel like all the Y T A s are coming from people who aren't married lol"
"If my husband asked this question of me and I said "anywhere but (let's say the racist diner down the road that his family loves)," I would expect to go anywhere but the racist diner down the road that his family loves."
"And if his family decided we were going there anyway, I would expect him to get me out of it."
"Likewise, if the conversation were in reverse and he said, say, anywhere but Olive Garden, I would pick anywhere but Olive Garden…"
"…and if I received pushback from my family, I would advocate for my spouse because having him there is half of what makes the meal enjoyable."
"Your wife failed you by either specifically choosing what you don't like or by failing to advocate for you."
"Even if Shoguns is her favorite restaurant in the whole entire world, that should've prompted a "well, I want to go there, would you rather stay home" type conversation."
"You're NTA. Healthy marriages are full of compromises. You didn't make it about you, you took a reasonable stand against being charged to sit there."
"Against your wishes being outright ignored. Against being denied chicken fingers?! Honestly."
"It would be a totally different story if she didn't ask, but she did, and regardless of who chose to ignore your preferences, you got overlooked, even though you're supposed to be her number one."
"I cannot stress it enough. Marriage is built on a foundation of compromise. NTA, NTA, NTA."
- w0nd3rk
The OP went on to update the thread's followers.
"Edit: really didn't expect this post to blow up like this. Thank you all for reading and giving feedback."
"I have talked with my wife, and we both agreed that we were both in the wrong, and both of our choices led to this situation happening (me more so than her)."
"She did apologize for picking the one restaurant I requested for her to not pick, though she also says her parents more or less forced her into the decision (makes me feel even worse for my reaction)."
"Although everyone seems to have some really mixed feelings on this, I have come to the conclusion that I am the a**hole here."
"The situation put me on the spot, and my reaction was a poor one. Thank you all for your input."
"Also, to those insinuating that my wife and I are bad for each other, grow up."
"It was a petty argument that stemmed from both sides. We love each other very much and certainly are not going to get a divorce over something that can be resolved with a simple conversation."
"Also, no she did not just pick the location to be petty or just to start a fight like some you are suggesting."
"I get it, it's easy to jump to conclusions way too quickly sometimes, but my wife is not a petty person in the least bit, in fact, she is one of the most kind-hearted - go out of her way to do stuff for others - people that I know, hence why I fell in love with her in the first place."
Happy belated birthday to the OP's wife.
Glad you two could clear it up. And that the Shoguns showdown is over.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp