Content Warning: Unhygienic Habits, Autism-Shaming, Poverty-Shaming
We’ve all known someone who becomes an adult and still doesn’t get basic adulting tasks.
If the tasks they aren’t getting are hygiene or cleaning-related, it can be really hard to be around them or in their home, admitted the grossed-out members of the “Am I the A**hole?” (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor JobOk8941 was chronically grossed out by their brother’s wife, who did not practice essential basic hygiene and cleaning tasks, which impacted their ability to spend time with her or share spaces with her.
When a family vacation was planned, and their sister-in-law was expecting to attend, the Original Poster (OP) was unhappy with the idea of sharing a bathroom and a kitchen.
They asked the sub:
“AITAH for ‘shaming’ my sister-in-law and refusing to attend a vacation she was attending?”
The OP was not interested in going on a family vacation that included their sister-in-law.
“A couple of years ago, my brother met his now-wife, Susan (33 Female), and started bringing her to our family events.”
“Our family has a cabin that we use every year for a one-week family vacation. Normally, it used to be our parents, husband, and me, and my brother, but for the last two years, Susan also joined us.”
“This year, I refuse to go if Susan is present, and my parents want me there, so Susan is not invited anymore.”
“Here’s why I don’t want Susan to come with us. The short reply is that she is disgusting. She doesn’t have any kind of hygiene, and every vacation with her was a nightmare because she couldn’t act like a normal human being.”
Body odor was an issue.
“First, she stinks. Plain and simple. How my brother can tolerate her smelling the way she does is beyond my understanding, but all the rest of us have a hard time being in her presence.”
“The reason why she stinks is because she is against deodorant.”
Hygienic products were not individual or sacred where the sister-in-law was concerned.
“She uses items that don’t belong to her without asking and without informing anyone after.”
“Last year, I left my and my husband’s towels to dry in the sun after we had our morning showers. Around noon, I wanted to take the towel back to our room and noticed it was soaking wet, which couldn’t be possible since it literally stayed in the sun for half a day.”
“When I asked if anyone knew what happened to our towel or why it was wet, Susan said she had a shower and used it. It’s a miracle she showers, but I don’t share my towels with anyone except my husband, so it landed right in the bin.”
“She acted offended that I threw it out and said there was no need to act like she had the plague.”
“I told her there was also no need to use my towel, and I don’t care what she has or not; it’s not okay to use things that don’t belong to you, no matter what.”
There were also several issues with her actively dirtying public spaces.
“She doesn’t clean the toilet after using it, so all of us found period blood and poop displayed when we needed to use the bathroom. She also doesn’t wrap her tampons when throwing them away in the bin. Her reason every time is, ‘I forgot.'”
“I have seen her multiple times drinking juice or milk directly from the bottle. She also forgets we don’t want to share saliva with her and that this habit is disgusting.”
“She uses her hands to mix ingredients without washing them beforehand. She was making a salad and mixed everything together in the bowl with her dirty hands.”
The OP was not comfortable with being around her.
“When we talked to my brother about everything, he always made excuses for her. His main justifications are that she has Autism and that she grew up poor, so we need to be understanding of her.”
“I am not. Poverty is not an excuse to stink and be dirty. Poverty and Autism are not excuses to not clean the toilet after you use it when you have a brush there for this exact purpose.”
“I guess my brother told her the reasons why she was not invited, and she confronted me, crying that I am shaming her.”
“So I told her if by this age she is incapable of feeling ashamed by her own behavior, there’s a very slim chance I or anyone else can ever shame her in any way.”
“AITAH?”
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You’re the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that they wouldn’t want to be around Susan, either.
“My mom is basically Susan, and she grew up privileged, upper-middle-class in the 70s. Her kids grew up lower middle class in a hoarder home, yet we can all somehow shower regularly, use (AND WASH) dishes, cook our food before eating it, wash our hands, etc.”
“Wealth has nothing to do with being nasty. I couldn’t spend an afternoon in that house with her.” – JacOfAllTrades
“NTA. She’s f**king disgusting.” – SonicSpeed0919
“NTA. ‘She is against using deodorant.’ Say no more.” – JerryfromCan
“I’m Autistic and grew up poor (not that I think the latter has any relevance) and, apart from the toilet thing, I would probably do all of these things… IN THE PRIVACY OF MY OWN HOME.”
“There is NO WAY that she made it to adulthood without learning to flush a godd**n toilet, and while hygiene can be a perpetual struggle, that’s a reason to find workarounds, not an excuse to just give up and subject everyone else to your stink.”
“If she isn’t willing to work on these supposed issues (personally, I think she’s doing it on purpose because she’s just blatantly disrespectful), then you don’t have to be willing to keep putting up with her.” – Educational-Bus4634
“NTA. My sister was Autistic, God rest her soul, and she showered every day, used deodorant, and cleaned up after herself. There is no excuse for being disgusting.” – Undeadpyroninjalover
Others were more disgusted with the OP’s brother for blaming Susan’s “autism” for her unhygienic habits.
“Repeat after me: People with Autism are not incapable of learning.” – itwillhavegeese
“I hate it with a vengeance that people use Autism as an excuse for abominable behaviour, either for themselves or for their offspring.”
“I have a son with Autism, ADHD, and was also diagnosed as a child with ODD.”
“I worked my a** off to coach him to be a functional, reasonable, and above all, a decent human being. I took special needs parenting classes, I sent him to specialised therapy, judo (for learning discipline and coping with excess energy), and drama classes (to regulate his emotions). I taught him to be proud of who he was, but also how to function in a society that is not always tolerant.”
“And above all: boundaries exist. For himself as well as others. I always told him that he has Autism, he is not an Autist. It’s part of who he is, not the whole sum of him. Just as his glasses and a great sense of humor are part of him, too. And he better not use it as an excuse, or I will box his ears.”
“Was it easy? No, of course not. Not for me and certainly not for him. Not everyone (especially as a child and teen) has understanding and patience for people like him, but he knows very well that the world doesn’t always accept his unique needs.”
“But he is an adult now, has a good job, a solid circle of friends who understand and accept him for who he is, and a nice girlfriend. I wish your brother could say the same of his wife, but hopefully, she will get there, if a little later than she should.” – jezebel103
“NTA. Your brother is, though, for blaming Autism for her behavior.”
“One thing I’ve found Autistic people are normally very good at is understanding direct instructions like, ‘Please wash your hands before touching food,’ and, ‘Please don’t use my things without asking,’ and ‘You have to make the toilet look clean before you leave the room.'”
“I can understand that deodorant might be difficult from a sensory perspective (although I’ve found the cream ones suit me). However, if you don’t use it, you need to clean yourself more often so you don’t have body odor.” – FirstFroglet
“NTA. She is not disgusting because she grew up poor or because she has Autism. She is just the type of person who lacks respect for the people around her and then blames it on her condition or upbringing.” – LycheeOk2130
“I don’t understand this logic. I grew up super poor. My mom is a freaking clean freak and would not stand for such behavior. Not cleaning up the toilet after usage is not an Autism or poor thing; it’s a disgusting person thing. Ugh, I feel so gross just reading this.” – Appropriate_Sky_6571
After receiving feedback, the OP shared an update in a second post.
“Thank you guys for all your feedback on my last post. After yesterday, I was left with mixed feelings. On one hand, I am happy that there are still normal people around who value being clean and sanitary. But on the other hand, I was sad to see how many nasty people we have around us.”
“Someone said very well that shame should once again start being a thing, because maybe by feeling ashamed, some people will start acting normally again and stop demanding that the rest of society put up with nasty habits.”
“As an adult, to go on the internet and claim that a 33-year-old female MUST be shown and explained basic things like cleaning a toilet seat after getting it dirty is unreal.”
“Just a personal idea, but I will share it here. One may not learn from home everything they need to know or all the social standards, but each and every one of us is responsible for educating ourselves if that education did not come in our early years. Meaning your parents may not have explained to you why it’s important to have good hygiene, but as an adult, you have all the means to learn it yourself.”
“That being said, my family and I are leaving tomorrow to go to the cabin. My brother will join us, but Susan will not. He will probably give us more details in the following days, but I guess he is also tired of his wife and her inability to act like a normal human being. It’s sad, and he is also to blame for how things turned out for not putting a stop to his wife’s nasty habits.”
“But well, for the first time in two years, we will enjoy our family vacation, and my parents will have both their kids present with no stress, not being disgusted or tired of cleaning after an adult woman.”
“For those who seemed unable to understand why my husband is still invited and my brother’s wife is not: the answer is because my husband is not a pig and because my husband did not leave period blood on the toilet seat, making my father storm out of the house to go pee in his own yard because he was too disgusted to use his own bathroom from his own cabin.”
“Society will exclude you if you are unable to follow basic, decent cues because people don’t owe you anything. And no, this does not come from a place of hate, as immature people want to believe. It comes from a place of valuing boundaries and comfort.”
Fellow Redditors agreed that it was time for Susan to “learn” these basic healthy habits.
“The whole ‘my parents didn’t teach me’ argument most definitely has its limits. My mom didn’t teach me how to fix the fault codes on our boiler (because she didn’t know how); a random mechanic on YouTube taught me, and then I taught my mom.”
“My best friend grew up poor with an abusive alcoholic mom; cleanliness was never taught in her house. She’s also on the spectrum and taught herself how to keep tidy and made sure her brothers kept up with their hygiene. They’d even come use our showers when they had no hot water, and the bathroom was spotless after because she’d clean up after them before she even left the bathroom.”
“SIL has made a choice not to learn or keep up with huge and doesn’t care if it affects others.” – MelanisticMermaid
“NTA, and I completely agree with you. I worked in a law firm, and the women’s toilets on my floor used to be left in a state with period blood on the seat, on the floor, and poop streaks all over. Disgusting.”
“Some others and I complained to HR over it, and a talk was had about toilet hygiene. Like, that is so embarrassing for adults.” – NoTradition7091
“Your original post mentioned that she didn’t like deodorant and had horrendous body odor. I still don’t get the deodorant thing. Why doesn’t she like to use deodorants? If she’s a grown adult, someone else must have mentioned that she stinks to her at some point. She sounds incredibly stubborn and possibly unwilling to learn.” – d4everman
“Your update was terrifying enough, I had to read the original post, and dear gawd, what the heck is wrong with this woman? I don’t share my towels, either. It’s why I have different-colored towels from the kids. And the communal bathroom, freaking nasty.”
“Your poor brother, even if he made the choice in the first place to say ‘I do.'”
“NTA. Some people’s children, I swear.” – Impossible_Smile4113
“Good for you and your family that you will finally have a nice time!”
“Just a piece of advice if you want to hear it. From experience, I have seen that some men have a hard time accepting when they are wrong or when there is a problem. It might be ego, it might be feeling like accepting there is something wrong may look like their own failure, but most of the time, they are aware something is wrong, even if they are not willing to accept it to other people.”
“What I am saying is, try using this vacation when your SIL will not be present to talk to your brother. Have your father and your husband explain to him how the women in their lives are acting, what they do, how they clean up, etc. It might be really useful for him to have some male perspective there.”
“You and your mother can also show him during this time what normality looks like. From what you mentioned until now, it is clear you were both raised in a certain way, with a clean house and a clean environment. Try to make him remember how good it feels to be clean and make him see he does not need to live with a pig or like a pig.” – LycheeOk3120
One Redditor had a very thoughtful reaction, hoping that Susan would learn from this.
“I think this is probably the best possible outcome for this situation. I think it’s probably good for your brother to have some time away from the mess and chaos that seems to surround Susan, and I think it’s good for Susan to learn that actions (or inactions) have consequences and she can’t just go through life imposing herself on other people without repercussions.”
“That being said, I think there should also be a level-headed family conversation about (i) where the relationship stands with your brother and Susan and (ii) under what circumstances is Susan going to be allowed to share space with other people in the family for things like holidays, group gatherings, etc.”
“Hopefully, this is a wakeup call for her, but I think there also needs to be a conversation with your brother, like listen, we understand you love Susan and she is your chosen partner, but we do not feel comfortable with her unsanitary practices and habits, and as a family, we have hit a breaking point with this.”
“If Susan wants to be integrated into the family and allowed to share space with us, she needs to be engaged in good home and personal hygiene and respect for other people and their belongings. Suppose Susan cannot maintain a basic standard of self and home cleanliness. In that case, we unfortunately will not be able to host her, because it is putting our mental and physical health on the line to be constantly dealing with this.”
“And then you adhere to that boundary and continue to disallow her from shared spaces. It’s stern, it sucks, it feels like punishment for Susan, but that’s the line that has to be drawn.”
“And I get it; I have empathy for Susan. It’s tough to be poor and to grow up not knowing things as a child, and that absence of knowledge can certainly carry into adulthood, especially if you have mental health struggles or neurodivergency. I would suspect Susan has something going on, because most people who are mentally well are not slovenly, unhygienic, and oblivious as to why that might be a problem.”
“I give her a certain measure of grace for those struggles, if she has them, but as an adult, she should learn how to manage herself. I would encourage your brother to perhaps look into mental health services for her, a life-coach or support, or someone else who is qualified and trained to help people navigate mental health issues and executive functioning.” – Icy-Sail6212
The subReddit was thoroughly grossed out by all that the OP had witnessed in their sister-in-law, who, at the end of the day, was 33 years old and had already had plenty of time to figure these tasks out.
Though it seemed like the OP also had unnecessarily hard feelings harbored toward their sister-in-law, it seemed that they still had good reason to be concerned and to not necessarily want to be exposed to all of this filth during a time when they should be relaxing with family.