Some people are just uncomfortable by signs of affection.
Be it a long, passionate kiss that probably should be confined to behind closed doors, or merely a simple two-second hug, there are people who don't like seeing it or being part of it.
There are also those, who only find themselves uncomfortably by displays of affection between certain people.
Redditor Separate_Recipe_4077 was openly affectionate with his twin sons, as well as with his daughter from his subsequent marriage.
Which made him all the more surprised to hear his wife express her discomfort for the way he showed affection to one of his sons, resulting in the original poster (OP) making it clear that she was in no position to have any opinion on the matter.
Worried he may have gone too far, the original poster (OP) took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for not treating my wife like an equal parent by telling her she has no say in the way I bond with my son and also calling her homophobic?"
The OP first shared how he became a father a bit earlier in life than he expected, but thankfully developed a great relationship with his sons.
"When I (37 M[ale]) was 17 got my then-girlfriend (16) pregnant with twin boys."
"Her parents didn't want the babies to 'ruin' her future so they said that I had to either take them or give them up for adoption because she was not raising them."
"I wanted to give them up but my parents told me not to."
"For the first seven years of my boys' lives, I didn't act like a father and was more like a big brother."
"They knew I was their father though, but we never bonded like father-sons."
"When I was ready to move out, I wanted to do it without them but my dad let me know it was my responsibility so I had to take them, I didn't want it at first but I'm glad it happened."
"We started bonding as father-sons."
"I started loving them and their love for me increased."
"I remember the three of us would seat on the couch to watch movies, one would sit on my left and one on my right while I wrapped my arms around them, they'd put their heads on my chest and I often kissed their forehead."
"We've been doing this since they were seven."
The OP continued this tradition after eventually marrying, and while his wife initially didn't seem perturbed by his affections for his sons, that all changed after an announcement from one of them.
"I met my current wife, 5 years ago, my kids were 15."
"Me married 3 years ago after we welcomed our daughter 4 F[emale]."
"She saw me doing this with my kids when we watched movies and she never said anything."
"My kids are no longer living with us because they left for college, but they come to see me every now and then."
"My boys are 20 now but they still like to put their heads on my chest while I wrap my arms around them, they do it every time they visit and I'm watching TV."
"My son, Liam visited me 2 weeks ago."
"He came out to me as gay and introduced me to his bf."
"I don't care how my kids live their sexuality or who they love."
"I love them no matter what, I just want them to be happy and I don't feel any different, and it doesn't make me feel uncomfortable to hug him or kiss his forehead, but it seems that my wife is a little uncomfortable."
"My son visited me again last Wednesday."
"Since he was here 2 weeks ago, so the first time 'officially out'."
"I was watching 'Red' with my daughter."
"She was on my left, then my son Liam arrived."
"He was tired and sat on my right, put his head on my shoulder while I wrap my arm around him, then I kissed his forehead and said, 'good to have you back buddy'."
"We went to sleep and the next day my wife told me that It made her feel uncomfortable, me hugging and kissing my son, and asked me not to do it again."
"While she doesn't mind me doing it with Lucas, my other son, straight, she doesn't want me to do it with Liam."
"I told her that she has no business being in my relationship with my sons."
"I also called her homophobic."
"She accused me of not treating her like an equal parent to my sons."
"Thus I said that's ok because you are not'."
"My brother says I should understand because this is a big 'change' for her ,a son coming out."
"But seriously think there is nothing to get 'used to' this isn't neither her nor my problem who my son loves."
"Am I in the wrong?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not the A**hole
- YTA – You're the A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everybody Sucks Here
The Reddit community agreed that the OP was not the a**hole, and had every right to clap back at his wife, and seemed like an ideal father.
Just about everyone agreed that the OP's wife was unfairly sexualizing their relationship, and she needed to be called out for doing so, with many wondering how far off the OP's accusations of his wife being homophobic actually were.
"NTA."
"Your wife is sexualizing a gesture that is from parental love."
"I would be offended and tell her that she is being disgusting."
"At 15, your boys were fine being raised when she entered their life, so she really doesn't have any say."- lostalldoubt86
"NTA."
"Your wife is though, and definitely has some issues if this upsets her."
"Does she react the same when you cuddle or kiss your daughter?"- PlatypusBrain
"NTA."
"Your wife has some deep, deep issues if she sees anything sexual in a very healthy and honestly beautiful father-son relationship."
"Especially since she doesn't mind the same kind of relationship with a straight son."
"I had to delete several lines I was about to write about your wife's thought process, because it's just so disgusting."
"Please, sit her down and have a very serious talk about this."- WarsmithUriel
"NTA."
"When it comes to your sons she is not and has not ever been an equal parent, so she has no reason to ask to be considered as such."
"Tell her to keep her homophobia to herself."- californiahapamama
"NTA."
"She is being homophobic."
"The world needs more dads like you."- adrianosm_
"NTA."
"I wish my dad wanted to cuddle with me after I got bigger.
"It started annoying him after I was about 8."- plscallmeRain
"NTA!"
"Your wife is sexualizing this due to her own issues, she shouldn't interfere with how you bond with your sons."- Successful_Ability78
"NTA."
"She thinks it's inappropriate for a father to kiss his son if the son is gay?"
"By that standard, no parents should kiss their opposite sex children of the children are straight."
"This is so unbelievably dumb."- BeJane759
"Man, I love the first three paragraphs of this post."
"Your parents really did right by you, and in turn, you ultimately did right by your boys."
"Current wife's a problem though."
"First, she's not an equal parent when it comes to your boys."
"They're yours, not hers, and were already teenagers by the time she showed up."
"She doesn't really get a say in how you bond with them, at all."
"Second, she is indeed a homophobe."
"There's nothing wrong with a father kissing and hugging his son, of course, but that she needs to make it about one of your boys' orientation is just revolting."
"NTA, a million times over."- Zazzog
"NTA."
"And you sound like best kind of parent."- Cheftyler1980
"NTA."
"Yuck!"
"Just what is she trying to imply?"
"I think there is something really wrong with your wife."
"Are you allowed to do the shoulder thing with your daughter?"
"I can't see what the difference is."
"I actually got all warm and fuzzy reading your description of watching TV with your kids, it was really sweet, then your wife made me feel queesy."
"I'm not sure where I would go from here if I was you, what can you even say to that?"
"How does your sons sexuality even come into this?"
"I would love to tell you 'divorce her' but that's a stupid gut reaction from me."
"She really needs help though and I would struggle to ever look at her the same way after this."
"Yuck!"- whynousernamelef
It's pretty sad that anyone would be put off by a father showing affection to his son.
And it's even more upsetting if it is the fact that the OP was showing that sort of affection to their gay son is what made his wife uncomfortable.
Here's hoping a civil conversation will open her eyes and they'll get past this.
Otherwise, this could lead to a very rocky road ahead.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp