According to wedding etiquette resources online, save-the-dates for a standard wedding should go out 6-8 months before the ceremony, giving guests ample time to plan.
For destination weddings or weddings on or around holidays, a heads up should go out 9-12 months in advance. The actual wedding invitations are usually mailed 6-8 weeks before the wedding date.
A pop in to announce a wedding is happening in less than a month is very poor etiquette and will invariably lead to many guests being unable to attend.
A father of a previous runaway bride turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Wayland12 asked:
"AITA For going on a motorcycle trip with my friends instead of my daughter's wedding?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Some quick context. Last year I was told my daughter was getting married in 2025. I immediately supported this decision and was there every step of the way. Following tradition, I gave her $4,500 for help with venue payment."
"During the planning process, they changed from a local wedding to a destination wedding in Puerto Rico and forwarded the timeline a year to last fall, giving me a year less to pay for the wedding."
"Now I had to pay for flights and accommodations for people. Reservations for Airbnb were made and purchased and plane tickets were bought."
"Then they broke up over some pretty immature reasons."
"I was stuck with the bill. I tried for refunds, but was told the trip was going ahead for 'revenge' photos to make him feel bad. So, that and because my wife and stepkids are Puerto Rican, I said fine."
"In total, that trip cost me $22,500.00."
"Shortly after that trip, I was invited to ride through Glacier National Park with some buddies. I figured, we'll I've paid for multiple trips to Disney as well as multiple trips for people to go to Puerto Rico, so sure I think I earned it."
"My buddies and I planned for this September."
"My daughter left about 4 months ago to go back to her man and didn't say a word to me. We haven't talked once since she left. Zero explanation or call."
"The other day, she showed up at the house and told me matter-of-factly that the wedding is back on and I needed to be there. It was going to be on Thursday, 9/11."
"I told her I can't make it, I had prepaid plans already. She said, 'you're really going to miss my wedding'. I told her I was there for the first one. She said there wasn't one."
"I said, 'not according to my bank account'. She walked off, and now I apparently am the a**hole."
The OP later added:
"Believe me, I could not care less about the money. To be honest, I'm hurt by the fact that she just up and left and didn't even bother to call one time in months."
"She never even considered to check to see if that date worked for others. I was put off by the entitlement shown, but suddenly showing up and saying 'hey this is the new date and I expect you to show up' after zero communication?"
"And not to mention it's 9/11. I'm a veteran and was in the Middle East on that very day in 2001. Not a lot of fun."
"Neither was the next three years as a result. Honestly, I feel this whole situation could have been avoided with one single phone call."
"In the interest of complete transparency, after the first wedding cancellation, I flat out told her mother I would not be going to any of her other weddings."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I chose to go on my planned motorcycle trip with my friends instead of going to my daughter's wedding. Now people think I'm an a**hole."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"Holy sh*t, dude, 9/11 is a bad enough choice without you being a veteran. And you're right, it's insanely entitled to just show up and demand you be available without asking—especially after all you did for her previously and all the money of yours she wasted."
"It's perfectly reasonable to be pissed about the money, too. When you agree to give someone a huge amount of money for a particular thing, and then they waste it, you're allowed to be angry." ~ ravencrowe
"NTA, it is not clear as to if the daughter expected her father to pay again. Did she show up with the intention of truly wanting her father there, or was she playing the game until the money was needed to pay for the wedding?"
"I think dad is genuinely upset about spending all that money only for her to go no contact for months. She left without a word for months, then pops back up saying she is getting married again and on 9/11."
"Something about planning the wedding to be on 9/11 doesn't seem right. If you want a mid-week wedding, why not another day that week? Of course, it would probably be cheaper I think, even if it was on a Saturday."
"Unless the daughter does intend to pay for her own wedding this time, and that is all she could afford. Even so, and I apologize for not being able to ignore my personal feelings about 9/11, but I question her sincerity as to if she truly wants her father there."
"I still don't understand the 9/11 wedding date, and I still feel she was wrong to go no contact for all that time, then expect you to be ready and willing to walk her down the aisle."
"And couldn't she have changed the date so you could attend or walk her down the aisle? Enjoy your trip!" ~ Life-Yesterday4426
"NTA, your daughter is going about the planning all wrong. She should be working with you to decide on a date, to ensure the most important people are able to attend."
"Also, Thursday 9/11? I can't help to feel that's a poor date choice, and mid week!" ~ waters_shadow
"NTA. You've already been supportive and covered the cost for one venue, and attended a non-wedding destination revenge party for her and this dude."
"At some point she needs to accept some responsibility in your absence and understand that it isn't malicious, but you do have a right to your own life. This wedding whiplash nonsense has gone on long enough." ~ 21crepes
"Am I the only one getting red flags from this already failed relationship sealing the deal on Thursday, 9/11?"
"Honestly, I was so ready to call you an AH until I read all this. Go have fun with your friends. NTA. If she's lucky, you can FaceTime in for the ceremony." ~ Sami_George
"I was ready to say you are from the title, but you're NTA. She squandered her first shot at a wedding, drained your bank account, ghosted you, then popped up ready to repeat the mistake with next to no notice."
"Love for your kid should be unconditional, but not funding, or support for unreasonable/bad decisions." ~ spids69
"NTA. You already paid a lot of money. They broke up over 'immature reasons', yet your daughter said the expensive trip is still on for revenge—also immature and short sighted and with your wallet."
"Then you don't hear from her for months until she shows up, tells you the wedding is in one month, and you must be there."
"Too bad."
"Giving anyone such short notice for a wedding is ridiculous. And pretending to forget everything that only just recently happened."
"If she wants you there, she should reschedule. People generally, at the very least, ask immediate family if a certain date works or not." ~ dart1126
"Dude, you paid for a wedding, just because it didn't happen doesn't change the fact that you were there for her completely. Now she's sneaking up on you with a date? Is she going to be mad at everyone else who already had plans? NTA." ~ GingerTuxedoTabby
"NTA. Even without the backstory, if someone is planning an event, they should check the date with the people they want there the most, and if not, well then they need to understand people have plans."
"Sure, without the backstory, I'd think you should try everything possible to be there, but trips take planning and deposits and fellow travelers rely on you to stick to the plan, and with basically a month of notice, if you can't make it, you can't make it."
"With the backstory, absolutely not. You already paid for and planned a wedding, and both your daughter and her fiancé owe everyone a big apology and should be bending over backwards to seem embarrassed of their previous actions and doing a round of making amends."
"To confidently tell people to show up to their second wedding attempt with no apology, no backstory, no 'we know, super awkward, we figured our shit out' is ridiculous." ~ mfruitfly
"NTA. Giving everyone a month's notice for a wedding is way too short, and many family and friends will not make it because of other plans, working, or not wanting to waste money after her first attempt to get married."
"What does your daughter's mother make of this? Does she support this nonsense? Like other commentators said, how the hell do you get a venue and church at such short notice?" ~ KnickKnockers
"Who is paying for round 2? Regardless, NTA, go on your trip. And pretty sure something else incredibly irrelevant will happen and take two will get cancelled as well." ~ AussieBelgian
"NTA: though your daughter sounds like a piece of work. Up to you what you want to prioritize at this point, really."
"She might never forgive you for missing it...on the other hand, based only on the info you gave, the marriage isn't likely to last if it even actually happens."
"I can see why you'd be frustrated...especially after the wasted money and sense of entitlement on her part." ~ DragonBard_Z
It's up to the OP what they want to prioritize, but it was also up to his daughter to prioritize.
She clearly didn't prioritize him when she picked her wedding redo date.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp