When travelling to destinations unknown, it's often best to know as much about the location as possible.
As glamorous or as alluring as some places seem, there can be an insidious underbelly waiting to prey on tourists.
When locals send up red flags, it may be a good idea to listen and not judge.
But not everyone cares about warnings.
Redditor Initial-Midnight-251 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for 'ruining' a vacation for my future M[other]-I[n]-L[aw]?
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (25 F[emale]) am a mixed individual who was born and raised in South Africa, specifically Cape Town."
"My family and I moved to Canada when I was 16, and it was when I was studying here for university that I met my fiancé (24 M[ale])."
"My fiancé's mom (54 F) has always been someone who loves to travel, so I wasn't surprised when, at our last family dinner, she announced her plans to take the family on vacation again."
"However, she announced that this year's family trip would be to Cape Town."
"I was immediately concerned for a number of reasons."
"As someone who grew up there, I can confirm that the area has high crime rates and can be very dangerous, especially if you are a woman, and I know she is planning on taking her daughter (17 F) with her."
"I was shocked when she mentioned that this was her plan."
"She immediately began asking me questions, like, 'What did I think about the vacation?'"
"'Did I want to come with them?'"
"'What should she pack?'"
"I was (and still am) very concerned for her safety, as she isn't exactly a 'street-smart' person."
"It must have been clear on my face, because she asked why I looked so shocked."
"I told her outright that if I were her, I would reconsider the destination, as while it is gorgeous, it is not a safe place to travel to without prior experience or a close friend to help you, especially with a teenage girl in your travel party."
"Almost immediately, she accused me of being 'rude' and 'discouraging.'"
"She said that she had been excited about this trip, and I was trying to 'ruin' it for her."
"She even went as far as to imply that my mixed heritage had tainted how I viewed the city."
"My fiancé and I left immediately, he says I did the right thing by trying to keep them safe, but I still feel awful."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So... AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. She asked what you thought."
"You told her."
"You weren't trying to be mean or rain on her parade; you were trying to keep her safe." ~ Donutsmell
"Exactly. She literally asked for OP's input, then got upset when OP gave it."
"OP is just looking out for her safety, not trying to ruin anything."
"That heritage comment was uncalled for." ~ bielmanm
"NTA. You're protecting her from her own ignorance."
"Rather she be offended than murdered."
"She's being incredibly naive about the safety risks in a place like Cape Town for a non-local." ~ giantbrownguy
"Speaking of protecting, the real issue is what, if any, measures the fiancé took or will take to repudiate his mother's abhorrent behavior."
"Meaning consequences, not just telling the author she did something good in private afterward." ~ Scenarioing
"I visit South Africa nearly every year as a white European, whether it's for a few weeks or just a few days before transiting on to elsewhere in Africa (always cheap flights between Frankfurt and Joburg)."
"It's overall my favorite country in the world."
"That said, there are some people I know who I would NOT recommend visiting there."
"It depends on travel experience, street smarts, and generally the way they see and interact with the world."
"I just have a gut feeling about whether it's a good idea for the people in my life to visit there."
"It sounds like OP had the same gut feeling about their MIL, and it's saying NO!" ~ beerouttaplasticcups
"I feel like OP has not really travelled herself."
"There are many tourist destinations that could be considered dangerous as well."
"But Cape Town, and especially the more tourist areas, is going to be safer than many places."
"I agree with the NAH." ~ just_peachy1000
"Agree. I've been to Cape Town four times, once on my own, and I would never discourage anyone from going there."
"On the contrary! Now, just like with any big city in the world, mind your surroundings, don't do anything silly, and the odds will be with you."
"Millions of tourists visit the city every year!"
"While I do understand OP's concerns, they seem a little too extreme."
"I'm wondering why that is." ~ crackedactor82
"NTA. She asked, you told her."
"Imagine if you sugar-coated everything and she got mugged and scammed left and right." ~ LittleLemonSqueezer
"ESH. I've been to Cape Town and it was an amazing week with my friend."
"It's a beautiful city."
"You should have provided suggestions on how she could stay safe and which areas are better to stay in over others, rather than implying she shouldn't go at all."
"But she was also quite inappropriate and over the top to bring your background into the conversation." ~ jubarator
"NTA. She asked, and you spoke up."
"Based on what I see from the travel advisories, I'd almost consider you an a**hole if you didn't speak up."
"For context, I grew up and live in a city that tops annual murder charts and other crime rates in the US (New Orleans). "
"So when someone freaks out at me about me going somewhere 'dangerous,' I often ask, 'compared to what?'"
"Places like New Orleans, which some perceive as dangerous, are fine to travel to as long as you keep your head on a swivel, watch out for scams and pick pockets, and don't go looking for trouble."
"While random gun violence does happen, murders and other similar crimes are typically between people that know each other/gang violence, and domestic disputes."
"So if somebody expressed a serious concern, I check the travel advisories and specifically look for whether or not violent crime impacts tourists."
"Looking at the travel advisories put out by the Canadian government, Canada advises that tourists exercise a high degree of caution."
"Unfortunately, that designation leads to a lot of people taking more risks than they should because you need to read the advisory to see whether or not it's something you really should be concerned about."
"For comparison, the Canadian government also lists France as an area to exercise a high degree of caution."
"France has that designation due to the potential for terrorist attacks."
"Italy has a similar designation."
"Both France and Italy list petty crime as being the main concern for tourists, though, and the most likely harm a tourist would encounter."
"So if your mother-in-law checked the travel advisories and saw that South Africa had that designation, and she's been to France and Italy before without issue."
"I could see her thinking that there's no big deal about going to South Africa."
"But if you read the South African travel advisory, it says that there are far more dangerous things that could impact tourists, like murder, muggings (including people being followed from the airport), people impersonating police officers, and other things that are direct risks that tourists could face."
"The advisory specifically says the tourists are a target and that the violent crime is not restricted to mostly residents."
"That being said, I do think you could've approached this conversation a little bit better."
"I understand you were asked, and you gave an off-the-cuff response, but I think that some qualifying of your answer could go a long way."
"You can tell her that it's a beautiful place again, and a very exciting trip, and you hope that she has a wonderful time if they are still going to go."
"But, it is a difficult place for tourists to navigate alone, crime is a real risk to tourists, and you would really recommend that they get connected with a tour group rather than trying to handle the trip on their own." ~ anglerfishtacos
"NTA. She asked you for your opinion, and you gave it."
"Is she planning on staying at some all-inclusive resort and not leaving the property?"
"She'll probably be safe."
"Is she planning on exploring and trying to 'see the city?'"
"She may be safe, and may not be safe."
"Either way, she had absolutely no reason to make racial comments at you."
"You have lived experiences in the area."
"Thus, you have more knowledge than she does."
"That's that." ~ lutetia128
"NTA - especially given the racist remark she threw in - but I think you're overstating the danger."
"I've been to South Africa twice, and have friends who live there, and there is a very serious crime problem, but it's also a huge tourist destination and not exactly a war zone."
"I realize different people have different tolerances for crime, but with some basic precautions, they'll likely have no problems."
"I think your heart was in the right place, but I also think the idea that you shouldn't bring a 17-year-old to Cape Town is really misplaced." ~ allison375962
"NTA at all, she asked you, a local, for your opinion and advice, and then won't take it and get all defensive because she doesn't like what she's hearing."
"You did the right thing." ~ Ontas
"I mean... a more useful thing would be to advise her on areas or behaviors to avoid than just telling someone who is clearly gonna do what she wants anyway, not to do it. but eh, NAH." ~ Independent-Bug-2780
"NTA, she's lucky you care." ~ EastAd8026
"What did you do to make you believe you are in any way an a**hole here?!"
"You warned her of the dangers of the place you were born."
"She asked. You told her."
'She's being really weird about this by not listening to your experience! NTA." ~ West_House_2085
Reddit is with you, OP.
You told the truth because you cared.
Tell her to do a little more research, and she'll learn quickly that you're right.
She owes you an apology.
Try not to feel bad.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp