As a member of Gen X, the label of "women's work" was still very prevalent in the United States despite many divorced and married women being forced into the workplace to support their families.
Cooking, cleaning, laundry, and childcare were all women's work and beneath any man's dignity. Fathers bragged about how hands-off they were with their children, while any man who lowered himself to change a single diaper was mocked.
Luckily, men have become more empowered to actually participate in the lives of their children, and household chores are less likely to be separated by gender. But not everyone has emerged from the 1950s yet—and some misogynists are trying drag us all backwards.
A young woman who doesn't understand the household division of labor turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Royal_Cod17 asked:
"AITA for not doing my brother's laundry?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I am 23 years old and live with my mother and my 33-year-old brother. I was moved out and just recently had to move back in, but trust me I'm trying everything I can to find another place again."
"I do my own laundry while my mom does hers and my brother's. He definitely never 'forced' her to, but he also has no problem with letting her do it and hasn't considered that maybe he needs to start doing it on his own."
"My mom has been in the hospital for the past week due to recent medical issues, so she hasn't been home to do my older brother's laundry."
"While visiting her at the hospital earlier today, she gave me a list of very specific instructions to follow for doing my brother's laundry. I was a little caught off guard because why would she be giving me that information instead of my brother?"
"It seems to me that she expects me to do my brother's laundry for him, now that she isn't able to, instead of my brother just doing it himself."
"Am I the a**hole if I don't do his laundry?"
"He is an adult man…why is his younger sister expected to do it for him?"
"It's that way too whenever we go to my grandparents."
"All the men get to sit around and watch TV/play their games, while all the women are expected to be in the kitchen or constantly cleaning up."
"It's so frustrating!"
"I'm absolutely not planning on arguing with her about this right now, I just don't plan on doing my brother's laundry either."
"She just wants me to baby him like she does and I really don't want any part in that."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I'm not doing what my mother asked me to, and not doing my older brother's laundry for him."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA. End the cycle of enabling." ~ StAlvis
"NTA. Hand him the list of specific instructions." ~ DirectAntique
"It's a life skill. It's time he learned how."
"What happens if he finds a partner and THEY end up on vacation, or in the hospital, or with some ailment that prevents them from laundry duties?"
"Your mother failed your brother, but OP, you can step up and make it right. NTA." ~ 2dogslife
"Or just if his partner wants a partner to share household chores with—not a child who needs everything done for him." ~ Aethermist88
"I don't know a single woman who wouldn't nope out as soon as they find out he can't do his own laundry."
"Maybe they would give him a chance if he says 'show me', but at 33, I would be wondering why he hadn't learnt yet." ~ Environmental_Art591
"NTA. Pretend the instructions were for him. A 33-year-old man can do his own f*cking laundry or hire a service for a few weeks while his mommy can't do it for him." ~ Epsilon_and_Delta
"NTA. I would add that since he clearly needs the practice, after so many years of misogyny maid service, he should do yours, too."
"But I would never trust my brother to do my laundry. It would end up being doll clothes!" ~ Ok-Knowledge9154
"Unless someone has a disability or mobility issue that prevents them from doing laundry, there is no reason why a 33-year-old shouldn't be doing their own laundry. NTA."
"I'm almost 37, and I've been doing my laundry since I could reach the machine. Sure, I had help here and there, and some things needed some extra teaching from my parents, but I was a child."
"Maybe you should send him YouTube links to how to do laundry. Or let his laundry pile up until he runs out of clothes." ~ ZealousidealGrass9
"Obviously because it is a woman's job. NTA."
"'Dear brother, you are 33 and mother is in hospital. She has given me the instructions you need to do your laundry. It is not rocket science, you will manage. And you are 33, you will keep it up because you want to take some easy work away from your mother'."
"Your mother is in hospital. She will be tired and in need of rest when she gets home. Trust me, a grown man can operate a washing machine just fine." ~ LightPhotographer
"NTA obviously. He's an adult. He can (and should) do his own f*cking laundry."
"Sure you can make a deal like I don't know he's doing the grocery shopping/cleaning whatever and you do laundry or the other way round or something, but just expecting you to do the laundry because you're a woman?"
"Hell no. Even your mum normally still doing his laundry is wild. But, of course, that's just my outside perspective not knowing how other tasks are split and stuff." ~ GimmeFood666
"NTA. He'll continue to have problems in future relationships if he cannot manage his own maintenance. It's worse than just enabling. It's infantilizing." ~ MediumEngine1344
"My father was raised on the 'inside chores are women's work, outside chores are men's work' rhetoric."
"My brothers both can and do their own laundry, cook, do dishes, or pretty much anything else that needs doing around the house because my mother was of the opinion that if you wanted clean clothes or food on a schedule other than hers, you better learn how because she wasn't going to raise useless adults."
"I also got the crash course in home maintenance from my dad as well." ~ Fallenthropy
"I married my husband when his boys were teenagers. First laundry day rolls around, I do mine and my husband's."
"He said something about doing theirs. I told him no way, they were old enough—13 and 15—to do their own."
"He says that laundry is too hard and complicated for them to do. I say that if they can't manage something simple like laundry, there is no way they should ever be driving a car—oldest was counting the days until he could get his license."
"Guess who learned how to do laundry pretty quickly?" ~ evileen99
"NTA. The only reason you should do his laundry, would be if he was disabled in some way (mentally or physically) and has been unable to learn this task."
"If not disabled, give him the instructions and tell him it's time to put on his adult pants and learn to do laundry. Let him know he will NOT be putting this task on mom going forward as she has enough to do."
"Offer to watch the first time to ensure he doesn't do anything crazy, but you won't do it nor step in no matter how incompetent he appears nor how long it takes. He WILL try to aggravate you into taking over. To prevent that, make a bit of an event out of it."
"Make some popcorn, set up a chair to watch him, maybe even bring a book and tell him to ask if he has questions. Remind him many children aged 8 and up, all genders, do their own laundry."
"Does he really want to tell the world he is less capable than an 8-year-old? You have no problems posting to your IG or Facebook if he won't learn."
"I saw a show where the mom had a sign-up sheet in the laundry room where her kids could reserve a time for the machines. They all had hampers and all did their own laundry."
"Her youngest was around 10 and had already been doing his for a couple years. She did her own and the bathroom & kitchen towels. I was VERY impressed!" ~ RazzmatazzOk2129
The OP provided an update:
"I think he figured I just wouldn't have an issue doing it in place of her, but we talked about it, and he knows it's his own responsibility."
"He did it himself!"
"I handed him the list of instructions and stood with him while he did it—just for this one time."
"I ended up just straight up telling him, 'Hey, mom made this list for you for when you do your laundry'. I stood in the washroom with him while he did it to make sure it was all good and it went fine."
"He didn't have any complaints, thank goodness. I'm not sure if he even knew my mom was going to ask me to do it for him."
"I told him though, next time he's on his own unless HE specifically asks for help and only if he NEEDS it if he's running late to work or something."
"Thanks for all the suggestions on how to handle this. All is well."
It's amazing what open, honest communication can do.
All it took to resolve this problem was OP talking to her brother.
Hopefully her discussion with her mother goes as well.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp