Certain antiquated customs regarding women's roles in a marriage are thankfully becoming a thing of the past. No longer are women expected to be submissive homemakers whose sole duty is to follow their husbands.
Even if many people think there is still progress to be made when it comes to equality in marriage.
Progress that likely won't happen without a fight.
Redditor primageniture and her fiancé were expecting their first child.
The original poster (OP) had some ideas regarding her unborn child's name.
Ideas that noticeably veered away from tradition and did not sit terribly well with her husband.
Wondering if she was being unreasonable, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**Hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for insisting that our baby takes my (25 F[emale]) surname instead of my fiancé's (26 M[ale])?"
The OP explained why her ideas regarding their child's name sent her husband into a tizzy:
"Me (25 F) and my fiance Arjun (26 M) are currently 5 months along in our pregnancy with our unexpected, but very welcome, first child, a daughter."
"Relevant to the story, I am white British, and he is of Indian descent (3rd gen in the UK)."
"We met 6 years ago at University on a group project, where we were sorted alphabetically by surname and the rest is history."
"Obviously, I'm not going to put our actual surnames on the internet, but they are both 3 or more syllables and begin and end with the same letter/sound."
"For the sake of the post, say his is Mukherjee and mine is Mulvaney."
"We have decided our daughter's first and middle names and are looking at the surname situation, which has been heated."
"I have always been resolute in keeping my surname, and while I always thought I would double barrel any kid's names, given the similarity and length of our surnames, we both agree it would be really unfair for the kid as it would be a tongue twister that she would have to explain through school."
"So, I suggested we use my surname as the surname and have his as a second middle name - basically on all important documentation, so if he is taking her anywhere, it's easier/ won't be called up on it."
"Whilst he said the second middle name was a good idea, he was angry and upset that I want to use my surname, when passing the name down is something fathers do."
"Thing is, in my opinion, surnames are very linked to families, and his family has made it clear that I am not welcome."
"His parents, despite both being born in the UK, disagree with our relationship and want him to marry another person from his culture."
"I have only met them about five times due to how deeply unpleasant they are to me, and he has a distant relationship with them, too."
"My parents and brother (24M) have been the ones to take us under their wings, be there for him and even offer up our home for a bit when he moved to our city."
"He is super close to them, and my brother is one of his groomsmen in our wedding next year and I want to honor them by giving our surname to our child."
"I want our daughter's surname to represent a place where she, and both of her parents, are always welcome."
"He says I have a brother, who can carry on the family name whilst he has a sister who has already had kids, and I retorted saying I don't see why that duty should only be for men?"
"I said it's not the Middle Ages anymore, and I am contributing as much money and time into our daughter, am growing and birthing her, and have a family who have supported our relationship and her unconditionally. It became a fight, so I went to my parents (the next town over), where I am typing this now, so we could have a breather."
"They don't know the situation."
"I get that men have come to expect to have the surname, so I feel really guilty, but I want to carry mine on too."
"Any advice is super appreciated, as I really don't know what to do."
"The first name is Western. He's had the girl name picked since he was a teenager, and all of his boy names we discussed pre-finding out were Western - albeit pretty international names."
"The first name was 100% his choice, and I fell in love with it, too, as I realized it was a variation of my nan's name. Say my nan was called Carol, the name is Caroline."
"The middle name is Indian."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community generally agreed that the OP was not the a**Hole for wanting her baby to take her surname.
Most felt the OP's observations were valid, agreeing that since the OP' fiancé's family has not welcomed her into their family, their family name should not be commemorated:
"Nta."
"Is your family welcoming of him?"
"Would he be open to taking your family line name on?"- sally_is_silly
"NTA."
"The fact that the baby follows the patriarchal line is outdated, I agree."
"As someone in a relationship with someone with a clunky double-barrelled name, big no to that too."
"However, you might want to consider what his surname means to him, though I do get your point about his family."
"It definitely needs a calm discussion."
"How involved is he in other aspects of the name?"- jigsawsandroses
While others understood why the OP's fiancé wasn't entirely on board with the idea, even if they understood the OP's perspective as well:
"NAH."
"The best advice is to use both."
"Whoever doesn't get their way is going to be upset."- Educational-Loss5615
"NAH."
"Currently 31 weeks pregnant, and my partner and I still haven't settled on the last name - the difference being for us it's not about 'I want my name' and more trying to decide which one is a better fit."
"Whatever last name we settle on for our child will be the last name we both take when getting married and haven't locked in our first name (narrowed down to 5)."
"He is completely open to taking my last name despite his mother blowing a gasket of 'YOU WILL NOT!' When he told her it was a possibility."
'His response was it's not 1920, and as I've done all the work in making the baby and he loved me enough to want to be with me forever, having my name on the table as a real option was the absolute least he could do."
"Middle name was the easiest locked in almost immediately."
"I think your position is fair - his family doesn't accept you - why should your child get their name as it's basically making you an incubator in their eyes? However, if the first name is a family name for you… I see his point of keeping things fair and balanced."
"One scenario my partner and I played with was making a new last name combining both our last names rather than hyphenating (mine is a hyphen, and I hate it, so planning on dropping one regardless) but couldn't come up with something that sounds right."
"Sadly though, I fear this is likely to be a battle of attrition that one of you will need to cave on, and there is no right or wrong in this situation."- Aradene
"NAH."
"You're not an a**hole for wanting this, and he's not an a**hole for having his feelings on this as well."
"This does need to be sorted out, though, and quickly."
"This may be a situation where there is some kind of hyphenation, even if it's cumbersome."-
Yernar125
"NAH."
"Naming babies can be really hard, and both of your views and feelings are valid."
"I have always been adamant that I wouldn't change my last name and wanted any kids to have my last name as well."
"My husband was totally fine with me not changing my name, but when I was pregnant, he was definitely not on board with our daughter having my last name."
"We both had a hard time explaining to the other why it mattered so much to us and eventually, I came around to hyphenating (which he was cool with from the beginning)."
"But I think in some ways it comes down to feeling like the outsider in your own family - everyone else has the same last name, and you're the different one."
"I think your rationale of wanting to honor your family is sweet, and I also understand how your finance might feel like his family is being erased."
"The last name isn't just his parents', it's his."
"In fact, it's how you two met, and both of your last names are extra special for that reason."
"I wonder if he doesn't know exactly why he wants the baby to have his last name and is therefore leaning on old-fashioned arguments like passing on the family name."
"One solution I've seen a few people doing is actually making a new last name that combines the parents' last names."
"If yours are already similar, maybe that's a creative solution that could make you feel both included?"- NightingaleK
Seeing as the OP has yet to be welcomed by her fiancé's family, it's easy to see why she doesn't want her child to bear their name.
That being said, it's also easy to see why the OP wants to keep some connection to his family and deserves a say in what their child's name will be.
If there isn't an easy solution to this problem, one can only hope they both reach a solution that pleases them both.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp