Remaining friends with exes is a very divisive subject, because some can't help but immediately see the possible red flags.
But when an ex is presented as a solid backup plan for a current relationship, that's an actual, tangible red flag, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor Mindless_Lettuce5306 had been with her fiancé for almost four years and was looking forward to their wedding since they'd gotten engaged six months prior.
When she found out that her future parents-in-law not only viewed her fiancé's ex-girlfriend as a 'backup plan,' but they also regularly invited her to family gatherings without properly introducing them, the Original Poster (OP) felt betrayed.
She asked the sub:
"Am I overreacting for canceling our engagement after what happened at dinner?"
The OP was looking forward to her wedding day.
"I (26 Female) have been with my fiancé (31 Male) for almost four years."
"We got engaged six months ago and have been planning our wedding for next spring."
That is, until she found out the truth at a family dinner.
"Last Friday, we had dinner with his parents and his older sister."
"Everything was normal until his mom started talking about grandchildren. I laughed and said we hadn't even picked a venue yet."
"His dad looked at my fiancé and said, 'Well... unless your backup plan works out.'"
"Everyone at the table went quiet."
"I asked what he meant, and my fiancé quickly changed the subject."
"His sister looked uncomfortable and said, 'Dad, seriously?'"
The OP's fiancé tried to downplay it.
"On the drive home, I asked him what his dad was talking about."
"At first, he claimed he had no idea. But after I kept asking, he admitted that about a year ago, during a rough patch in our relationship, his parents encouraged him to stay in touch with his ex-girlfriend 'just in case things didn't work out.'"
"He said he never got back together with her, but he also admitted they exchanged birthday and holiday texts because he 'didn't want things to end on bad terms.'"
"That bothered me, but it wasn't the worst part."
"I asked why his dad would call her a 'backup plan.'"
"He eventually admitted that his parents still invite his ex-girlfriend to some family gatherings because she's close with his sister. He said he didn't tell me because he knew I'd be upset, and he insisted he leaves before she arrives whenever possible."
"I asked if she'd been at any events while we were together. He said yes."
"Then I asked the question that had been bothering me all night. 'Has she ever been at a family event where I was also there?'"
"He paused for a long time before saying yes."
"Apparently, last Christmas, she stopped by for dessert after I'd already been there for hours. He knew she'd be coming and never mentioned it to me. He said he thought it would 'avoid unnecessary drama' if I didn't know who she really was."
The OP's trust was broken.
"Now I'm questioning everything. I don't think he's cheating, but I feel like he intentionally kept me in the dark so I couldn't object."
"He says his family is difficult, and he was trying to keep the peace."
"He also said that canceling the engagement over this would be an overreaction."
"I told him I needed time to think, and now both his parents and sister are texting me, saying I'm blowing one awkward family situation out of proportion."
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overreacting
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some were enraged for the OP and reassured her she deserved better than to "need" a backup plan.
"I'm so angry on your behalf, OP. In my opinion, the fact that there was a backup plan in place is all you need to know." - ArtsyGirl-and-Cat
"Tell him AND his family, you have decided to go with plan B. Since they also have one, I'm suuure they'll understand." - Feeling-Fab-U-Lus
"NOR. That family doesn't respect you, and neither does he. Divorces are expensive, so nip the potential marriage in the bud." - DigBickEnergia
"I think that if OP stays in this relationship, his family will constantly be comparing her to the ex."
"The ex being at a Christmas party an op was the only one who didn’t know who she was; that’s pretty disgusting in my opinion. That would be the deal breaker for me."
"The fiancé has not been honest with OP for years. Cancel the engagement. None of his family can be trusted." - nowstheworstoftimes
"Everyone knew the ex was there except for you. How embarrassing. It’s like, 'the joke’s on her!' and I’m sure they were watching to see if you interacted with her unknowingly. How many times were you and her at a d**n function??"
"This is middle school s**t. Your 'fiancé' is a PIECE OF S**T!!"
"Honestly, his whole family too. They were all in on it the whole time. Imagine going to family holidays with people like this." - BorkBorkWrangler
"It wouldn't matter what the family might think or how much they were still rooting for and loved the ex-girlfriend, maybe she's a great person, if the OP's now-ex just grew a set and acted like an honorable adult person."
"The fact that he went and tattled to them about OP in such a way that they feel it's ok to harass her about it tells me all I need to know."
"OP, don't settle for this. He is showing you who he is. You deserve someone who is more worried about creating and keeping the peace with you than his ridiculous family." - jumpyjumperoo
"This conversation leaves me feeling livid on behalf of OP."
"Going forward and no matter what you do, there will be a little niggle; a seed of doubt surrounding your place in this family."
"OP, they broke up for a reason, but your fiancé’s behaviour: lying by omission to ‘prevent drama’; obfuscating the truth about his ex-girlfriend’s ongoing involvement with his family; not berating his parents for proposing a backup plan (no matter how flippant) demonstrates a blatant disregard for your feelings and disrespect for you and your relationship."
"Adding to that, his family being aghast by your response and not embarrassed nor remorseful by the way THEY have undermined your relationship is telling."
"OP, I am sorry you are facing this. All I would say is look carefully at how you have been spoken to and treated by both your fiancé and his family in the past."
"Take some time and space; consider all the moments where you may have shrugged off an odd comment or dismissed an uncomfortable feeling and then make your decision. I doubt this is the only time where you may have felt something was not quite right."
"Unfortunately, OP, if you choose to end the relationship, his parents will think their comment was prophetic, and if you don’t, it will have served to undermine your trust in both your fiancé and his family."
"NOR, and I wish you well." - Cool-Blackberry-785
Others agreed wholeheartedly and reassured the OP that she deserved better than to waste her time on an inauthentic marriage.
"He's a liar, and he's deceitful. That's a moral failing on his part, and it's a core part of his personality. There are two kinds of people, one that's honest and one that's not. And that's not going to change. Get out now while you can." - NamasteNoodle
"NOR. Not only do they not respect you, but his father was also laughing at you. They think it’s funny to sneak his ex around you at family events without you knowing."
"And the boyfriend’s argument is that he doesn’t want unnecessary drama."
"Misogynists use that word to keep women from having completely justified anger about their actions. He knows what he is doing is wrong, or else he wouldn’t be sneaking around. He just doesn’t want to stop." - PizzaCutter
"I’m sorry, but this is not “one awkward family situation.” This isn’t accidentally walking in on his parents fucking, or something like that. This was a deliberate choice by his family members to continue to include his ex in their family plans, and a deliberate choice by your partner to not tell you about it."
"If it had happened ONE time and they all agreed, 'that was a bad thing to do, we crossed a boundary, let’s never do it again,' then maybe I’d give them the benefit of the doubt. But this went on for months. He had ample opportunities to come clean to you, and now his parents are making comments about it RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU."
"Either your partner cuts off contact with his ex and tells his family to butt out of your relationship, full stop, or I’d say this is not someone you want to marry. NOR."
"Also, I am not someone who subscribes to the whole 'no one should ever talk to their ex at all once they’re in a new relationship.' I am good friends with my ex still (my fiancé is okay with this), and my family absolutely loves him, and they have even said he can come hang out with them any time he wants, whether I’m there or not."
"They absolutely adore him. But they also adore my fiancé, and they would never, ever overstep a boundary and invite my ex to a family gathering without asking me/us if it was okay first."
"I just wanted to say that so nobody thinks I’m coming in here guns blazing just because this person is his ex. It’s not the presence of the ex that is the problem per se; it’s the inherent lack of transparency regarding said ex from everyone else involved. NOR." - carpetDMcosplay
"NOR. They all purposely kept you in the dark. His WHOLE FAMILY AND FRIENDS!!! Anyone who knows who you, and her, and who have been at gatherings with both of you there, have kept you in the dark."
"And he's okay with it. He has one foot out the door if things don't work out with you."
"Don't marry this man. Call off the engagement/wedding. This will be your life."
"His father doesn't respect you; that's why he said what he said."
"Get couples counseling if you think your relationship is worth fighting for. But you will be the only one fighting for it."
"Because he's okay with keeping his options open by stringing both of you along."
"Choose yourself. Because he hasn't. And this is the time that he should be choosing you as his new family. Good luck." - Dourexpectations
"Tell him he still has his backup in place since he never shot that down. No way in H**l would I marry a man like this."
"His parents obviously like the other girl better, and it doesn’t seem to matter much to him as long as he’s married."
"Let her have him. They’re a match made in Hell. You’ll be better off without the entire family." - Shadow4summer
Sometimes when romantic relationships end, it's not because the two people want each other out of their lives in every way, so they maintain a friendship and romantically move on. That would be acceptable, but joking about being a backup plan is red flag, especially when you're aware enough of that fact that you keep that joke from your new partner.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp