It's common knowledge that not all marriages last forever.
In many - but certainly not all - cases, partners move on and begin new relationships.
Unfortunately for their partners, though, it's apparently not common knowledge that when a new relationship starts, the previous one should be over.
A dad on Reddit is devastated that his husband of three years cheated on him with his ex-wife, at their son's birthday party, no less, so he turned to the "Am I The A**hole Here" (AITAH) subReddit to seek advice from fellow Redditors.
Redditor Majestic_Designer781 asked:
"WIBTA for not forgiving my husband for cheating on me with his ex-wife?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I'm honestly a mess and I don't know what to do, so any advice would be appreciated."
"I (27/m[ale]) and my husband (37/m[ale]) have been married for 3 years, dating for six."
"He has an ex-wife (37/f[emale]) which he divorced a year before we met."
"We have a son (7/m[ale]) who was adopted after we got married and who I love as my own child, because he is."
"I know my husband, Peter (fake name) is bisexual, I have no problem with it and I had no problem with his ex-wife, Allison (Also fake name), I did have a problem with his family as they're a bit homophobic and are always telling Peter he should get back together with Allison."
"Well, two weeks ago, we were at his family's town because it was my son, Jack's (fake name) birthday and we wanted to spend it as family."
"My mother in law, decided it would be a good a idea to invite Allison so she arrived in the middle of the party, I didn't want to ruin Jack's birthday so I stayed quiet."
"I spent all my time with Jack, playing with him and his cousins at his request."
"When it was time to cut the cake, I noticed Allison and Peter weren't there, so I went inside and looked for them around the house."
"I found them in Peter's old bedroom taking their clothes off."
"I stood there in shock for a moment but then I left and went back to celebrating Jack's birthday."
"Part of me wanted to scream and cry but I also was in shock and I refused to make Jack's birthday about me."
"We cut the cake and opened the presents, people were already leaving when Allison and Peter came back."
"Peter took me aside and started saying that I shouldn't have cut the cake without him present and it was disrespectful."
"I stared at him and just said 'I'm sorry, I just thought you'd be too busy getting into your ex-wife's pants.'He got quiet so I took Jack and left the house to go back to the hotel."
"Once I put Jack in bed and made sure he was asleep, I locked myself in the bathroom and broke down."
"I called a friend, and he tried his best to console me."
"I only calmed down in the morning when I took Jack for breakfast because I didn't want him to see me like that."
"I'm now watching him play in the park, and I don't want him to suffer, I don't want him to have a broken family, I don't want him to know that relationships aren't a happy ever after."
"Peter has been calling and texting, apologizing for everything, and I'm tempted to forgive him."
"I'm tempted just to have my family back, and all my friends are saying that it was just a mistake, that he was vulnerable, and Allison is his ex-wife."
"So what am I supposed to do now?"
"I need the advice from people who don't know my husband or me personally."
"Please, any advice is helpful."
Redditors weighed in and decided OP was not the a**hole for feeling devastated and offered their advice.
"NTA but you should leave."
"I know it won't be easy, but if you stay, think of it as showing Jack that it's okay for your husband or wife to treat you badly."
"If you want him to know about happily ever after, you need to show him that it's okay to not settle and you work hard for your goals no matter what they are, and work towards them with kindness, honesty, and integrity."
"Kids are far more impressionable than we give credit for, and as someone who has known so many families where the person being hurt hasn't walked away, that hurt spreads until it damages everyone."
"Relating to just yourself here there is a huge safety factor."
"Regardless of the sex of each individual involved, staying with a cheater also puts you in danger because you don't know everyone they're sleeping with and, more importantly, what STIs they can be carrying."
"So think about your son and your health, and leave."
"Emotionally, if you're surrounded by people telling you to forgive and forget, those people are not safe to be around as you have no clue if they've been hiding this from you for a while either." - Redditor
"It would be one thing to forgive him for cheating, but he cheated with his ex-wife, who his homophobic family is going to cram down his throat for the rest of his life, and who he has demonstrated he has absolutely no ability to set a boundary on that and not do it."
"Your son is going to do best seeing both his parents pursue their own happiness as well as his."
"Taking people back and staying in sh*tty relationships just because changes are hard on kids is just gonna be kicking the can down the road and if anything teaching him to accept unacceptable treatment imo."
"Don't get me wrong, I know separation will be hard on him, but children are resilient."
"I don't think you should take him back just for a dream that your SO isn't participating in correctly." - Ok_Copy_8869
"Yeah man, your family is already broken."
"His family disrespects you with inviting the wife....who has nothing to do with your son."
"Your husband doesn't stand up for you coz he's going to bang her....with everyone there knowing what's going on."
"Then he has the audacity to tell you you should have put the birthday cake on hold while he was having sex with his ex??"
"Show your son what self-respect looks like and leave this Ahole."
"And get an std test."
"Gotta think if he was bold enough to smash at the party with everyone present,...he's been creeping" - VegetableBusiness897
"You're not an a**hole if you want to get a divorce because your husband cheated."
"You can co-parent your child in a healthy way."
"I think the alternative of growing up in a house where your son's parents don't love each other could be potentially worse for him than growing up with divorced parents." - ChanceAd3606
"Please don't be one of those parents who sets his child up for failure and future hurt by pretending bad things don't happen and life is a fairytale."
"Your son needs to know that people make mistakes and you can forgive them for those mistakes without allowing them to have the same access to you."
"There are consequences for our actions." - RandomReddit9791
"Not only did your husband cheat on you with his ex-wife, he did it at your son's birthday party."
"The fact they were very comfortable and quick to jump into bed together would make me think they haven't stopped sleeping together even though Peter is married to you."
"Let that sink in…… just because you have a son together doesn't mean you have to accept being cheated on."
"Staying for the kid never works out."
"You need to be a role model to your son, and you should never let someone disrespect you like that."
"You can have a healthy co-parent relationship with Peter and find someone that will be loyal to you." - No_Client1841
"NTA."
"You were cheated on - that is unforgivable for most of us." - DevotedRed
OP took to the platform once again and offered two updates.
He first addressed some questions his fellow Redditors had.
"1. Peter and Allison didn't notice me when I saw them. There was music very loud downstairs, and they weren't facing the door."
"2. I didn't stop them because I was in shock. I just stood there for a moment, and I heard my son, so I unconsciously focused on him. I was pretty much on autopilot."
"3. Peter didn't come to the hotel with me because I changed to a different one, he did try to follow me but I took a taxi and left. As far as I know, he's staying with his parents and Allison left."
"4. We met when I was 20 and he was 30, we started as friends, and we ended up dating. Yes, we're both men and no, I didn't feel manipulated by him."
OP also shared that he and his husband did finally speak in person at which time OP said he wanted a divorce.
His husband did not take it well.
In his second update, OP said he had to take some time off of work because his husband had been following him to work.
He also wrote that he made an appointment for Jack to see a therapist and that he will be making an appointment for himself next.
His fellow Redditors are wishing him and Jack all the best as they navigate this new chapter.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp