Content Warning: Pregnancy Complications, Miscarriage
It's okay to agree to disagree, but there are some things that you and your partner cannot disagree on and still expect the relationship to work.
And honestly, the sooner you know what those disagreeable points are, the better, urged the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit.
Redditor ElectricalDetail1082 had been dating a guy for ten months and thought that the relationship was becoming something special.
But when they started talking about marriage and children, the Original Poster (OP) realized there had been a deal breaker waiting right in front of them the whole time.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for telling my boyfriend that I don't ever want to have kids with him?"
The OP was doing very well for herself and her children.
"I am 26 years old (Female), but I have never in my life felt 'young.' I am a mom, I have three kids (6, 5, and 4). I got married when I was 19, and my ex-husband was 29 at the time."
"Right after I gave birth to my youngest, we separated and later divorced due to his abuse of me. I was scared it would eventually be my babies, too. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, but it was the best thing for them."
"That was four years ago, and since then, I have been living pretty decently for myself. Me and my children live in a house in my dream city, I have a wonderful job (I am a nurse now, with a bachelor's degree!!), and I am so so happy. Happier than I have ever been."
"I have friends and reconnected with my dad, who my children were never allowed to meet. They love him and my dad teared up when they called him 'Pop Pop' for the first time."
The OP was in a great relationship, too.
"I also recently met this man named John. John is 28, very charming, so nice, has a great job, and was fine with me being a mother, which is very rare for men my age."
"This was so important to me as my children are the most important things in my life."
"He also has one child, who is seven years old. We have never met each other's children, so we decided we would wait one year before that."
"We've been going out for about 10 months already. It's getting closer to the time, and the other day we were talking about what we think about the future and things like that."
But it turned out that the pair disagreed on one very vital thing.
"The topic of marriage and children came up. I told him I was not opposed to getting married again if it made sense, but I definitely did not want any more children."
"I explained this because 1. purely the cost, 2. I am tired of being pregnant, as I was basically pregnant for four years straight and had high-risk pregnancies all four times, one resulting in a miscarriage; and 3. my kids are older, and I know it's not uncommon to have siblings four to six years apart, but I'm done with the baby stage. I just now feel like we are getting out of it."
"John was very upset. He told me he imagined having a child with the person he married, even if he does already have one. He said it was important to him."
"I asked him in this scenario, if it is me, that would mean we would have five children, and asked if he was fully prepared for that."
"He said it's not uncommon and was offended I suggested that."
The OP was shocked by how poorly John took the conversation.
"He ended up telling me that not wanting another kid was a deal breaker to him."
"I said fine, that really sucks, but I definitely would not be changing my mind. I make really decent money as a nurse, but five kids would just be so much."
"He ended the conversation by telling me, 'I don't know why you care about the money so much when your ex pays you child support anyway.'"
"He told me that not wanting a kid with him meant that I wasn't that serious in the first place."
"So am I the a**hole for this? Not wanting another kid? Are more kids that important to people who already collectively have four?"
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that she was NTA because she knew what she wanted.
"And this is why I make sure that people know I don't want kids right up front. I would be so p**sed off to waste 10 months of my life with someone, only to learn that they want another kid so badly to the point that it's a deal breaker. Still NTA, though, OP." - TheSecondEikonOfFire
"NTA. It's easy for him to say he wants another child, as he's not the one who has to go through the pregnancy and all of the risks and difficulties that come with being pregnant."
"From his attitude, I'm guessing that he also won't be a very hands-on dad since he's so flippant about the entire situation. He talks about the OP's three children she'll be bringing into the blended household like they won't be extra work for him as it is. It's a red flag that he will do as little of the child-rearing as he can with them.
I also really hate how he's making it about money and 'love' without even mentioning how big of a sacrifice being pregnant would be for her. He's acting like he's asking for a car and not for her to severely risk her health and relationship with her already existing children."
"Consider this a blessing because you got out before the kids were involved." - thisvideoslacker
"It's easy for HIM to have another kid. No risk to him at all, he just does the fun part and waits around."
"He will also be getting three more kids if you marry. You are 100 percent right to break up with him. He's pretty selfish. I can't imagine asking someone to go through a high-risk pregnancy because I really want a fifth child to raise." - ThrowRArosecolor
"I am 38. I have one daughter, and I chose to have a tubal after my girl, in the middle of a divorce."
"My doctor didn't want to do it because of the situation, and I was like, 'Look, I'm a mom already. I know what it's like. She's a toddler, not a tiny baby, and I had postpartum depression so badly that it tanked my life. I don't want to do that or risk that ever again.'"
"This is what convinced him: 'I will not be able to care for her, and she needs me. My existing child needs a healthy mom more than I need to have the 'possibility' of giving some man I've never met another baby.'"
"OP, if you haven't already and you're DONE like I was done, get your tubes removed. Conversation over, then and there. Not tied, removed." - Sandybutthole604
"The OP said, 'He ended up telling me that basically not wanting another kid is a deal breaker to him. I said fine, that really sucks, but I definitely will not be changing my mind.'"
"Well, that's good that you all came to a difficult but adult decision."
"Then the OP said, 'He ended the conversation by telling me, 'I don't know why you care about the money so much when your ex pays you child support anyway.' He told me that not wanting a kid with him meant that I wasn't that serious in the first place.'"
"(Record scratch sound) I take it back, it sounds like YOU are an adult, but there is a big sulky baby inside your boyfriend, and the baby started lashing out when he didn't get what he wanted."
"NTA. I'm sorry what was a promising relationship is now ending, but rest assured you're better off for it."
"Never stay with a person whose first reaction to disappointment is to try to hurt you." - stdnormaldeviant
Others agreed and stated the boyfriend's priorities were not in the right place.
"I want to say this: never stay with someone who asks you to risk your own life for his expectations."
"You've been pregnant four times, with four high-risk pregnancies, including one that did not make it (I am so sorry). If that's not a good argument for him, nothing will be. It's one of the biggest red flags I've ever seen."
"NTA." - frankman1995
"Him giving no f**ks about her health should be a deal breaker regardless."
"She could die and then what? Leave her children without a mother? F**k that. Even if she lived, she could hurt herself so badly, she'd live in chronic pain."
"Pregnancy is DANGEROUS. Men who want kids need to find women who are 100 percent on board, and they need to understand that if health issues come up, pregnancy may still not happen. Not hide it for 10 freaking months and hope to pressure his poor girlfriend into doing what he wants, at the risk of her health and sanity and life."
"Her health should be the top priority here. If I were OP, that's all I would be asking. 'You want me to get pregnant even though you know it could be dangerous?' 'Are you asking me to risk my life to give you a kid?'"
"And 'Do you think I'm more deserving of enduring pain and suffering than you? Would you ever make similar sacrifices by causing your d**k that level of pain for me?' NTA." - Prior_Canary5000
"Gotta love when a man acts entitled to our reproductive organs. 'If you don't give me a baby, you never loved me!'"
"Like dude, she had high-risk pregnancies AND a miscarriage, this would be a fourth for her, and you're mad she doesn't want to?? Ok, byyye!"
"I'm on my third right now and honestly think I'm done after this too, and I was lucky to have relatively smooth pregnancies."
"There are nice parts, but it's mostly just exhausting and uncomfortable, especially with two young children to chase around." - Mental-Woodpecker300
"He's not an AH for wanting another kid, but he DEFINITELY is for how he handled that conversation. I know that's 10 months down the drain, but at least it's not two years in or after you got married. NTA." - Pure_Butterscotch165
"Yay for catching the red flags before he met the kids, though! That's nice. That's why it's so important to wait to introduce the kids. I wish this was a more common practice."
"But seriously, OP, Way to dodge a bullet. His response to disappointment shows you why he's divorced in the first place. Imagine what he demanded of the woman he was married to. And kudos to you for waiting before introducing him to your kids." - TieNervous9815
While John wasn't wrong to want another child or to even want to have a biological child with the woman he'd spend the rest of his life with, he was wrong to pressure the OP to change her mind.
With multiple pregnancy complications already in the past and four children already in the mix, it was no wonder to the subReddit why the OP did not want to have more children.
They also pointed out that if John were really going to treat the children equally, he'd have three new children in his life very soon anyway.
By prioritizing a biological child over a blended family and assuming money was a bigger concern than bodily harm, it was clear John was not a good match for the OP, which unfortunately took ten months for her to figure out.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp