Engagements are meant to be a happy, happy time.
Marriage will soon be afoot.
Love is in the air.
At least that’s what “they” say is suppose to happen.
Some engagements come with entanglements.
Case in point…
Redditor notoldfashionedaita wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the “Am I The A**hole” (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
“AITA For refusing to ask my FFIL’s permission to marry his daughter (my fiancé)?”
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
“My G[irl]F[riend], well fiancé, (28 F[emale]) and I (29 M[ale]) have been dating for about four years and lived together for two.”
“A week ago I proposed to her and she said yes!”
“We are both incredibly happy.”
“But there has been one hang up.”
“Her family is very old-fashioned and traditional.”
‘After I proposed, she told me that even though she said yes, she wants me to ask her dad for permission to marry her.”
“She told me that it is an important tradition in her family and even though she knows it’s old-fashioned, she still wants me to do it and she refused to announce our engagement to anyone before I do.”
“She said that her parents will not approve of our marriage if I don’t do this and she doesn’t want to alienate her family like that.”
“She has two older sisters who are both married and their husbands both asked her dad for their hands in marriage.”
“She has an older brother who asked his wife’s dad for permission to marry her too.”
“It’s apparently a big thing in their family.”
“I told her that sort of thing doesn’t sit well with me and I think it’s sexist, patriarchal, and degrading.”
“I told her that neither of us should have to ask anyone’s permission to get married and since she already said yes, why does it matter what her dad says or thinks?”
“She told me that she knows it’s silly and outdated, but this is how her family has always operated and it’s important to them.”
“I asked her if it’s important to her too and she said it’s important to her parents and her family, which means it’s important to her.”
“I asked her what would happen if her dad says ‘no’ and she said we can worry about that only if it happens.”
“Now, I really, really don’t want to do that.”
“I think it’s a horribly outdated practice that removes all agency from women being able to make their own choices regarding marriage.”
“I explained this to my fiancé and told her we should just tell everyone that we are engaged and no one can do anything about it.”
“She told me she does not want our engagement announced to anyone until I do this.”
“Not to my parents, not to friends, nobody.”
“No one else is to know we are engaged until I ask her father’s permission.”
“I am refusing to do this and I am tempted to just tell my parents the good news because they deserve to know.”
“It doesn’t mean anything to myself or my fiancé and it’s only to placate her dad’s outdated views on marriage.”
“If he doesn’t approve of our marriage over one stupid question, that’s his problem.”
“It doesn’t change the love his daughter and I have for each other or the dedication we have to spend our lives together.”
“The way I look at it, it’s 2022, not 1922.”
“We don’t need to be doing this stupid type of thing anymore.”
“It’s outdated and ridiculous.”
“I just want to celebrate our engagement with family and friends and she is making me jump through a dumb hoop first.”
“AITA?”
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA?:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You’re The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared our OP was NOT the A**hole.
Let’s hear some thoughts…
“You need to talk to your fiancee, you cannot announce without her.”
“The issue is that you cannot ask for advice from friends and family in this situation because you can’t announce until you ask for permission or get clearance from fiancee.”
“You are allowed to not like this and refuse to do it, but that means you are probably not engaged.”
“You need to work out if that is worth it to you, and you need to see if a compromise is possible.”
“Is blessing okay? Would it be okay if you both asked for the blessing of both parents?”
“Is she open to these solutions?”
“This may be irreconcilable differences so work out if this means you don’t get engaged and communicate that to your fiancee so she can make an informed decision.”
“I go with NAH, just poor communication that can be solved.” ~ glom4ever
“OP, if you’ve been together for 4 years, living together for 2 and this permission thing is news.”
“This is a major communications and expectations gap that needs to be closed asap.”
“Do it before you make a decision about asking permission.”
“Better to find out about something that has you going WTF now than a year or five down the road.”
“And don’t just ask about wedding related stuff, put everything on the table: children, vacations, holidays, cross country moves, attendance at family gatherings/reunions, etc.”
“And don’t exclude something because you think you already know it.”
“There may be traditions that change or get stronger after both marriage and kids.”
“Stuff that hasn’t applied because ‘you’re just a boyfriend.'”
“If you need ideas of what sorts of landmines to look out for, just ask here.”
“I’m sure the collective can come up with plenty of fodder.” ~ hard_tyrant_dinosaur
“Use this as a flag to dig deeper OP.”
“Are you planning on having kids?”
“Will there be other out dated traditions she will want to raise kids with?”
“What about those conservative values?”
“If she blindsided you with this, you need to explore how deep this rabbit hole goes before you commit to marriage.”
“You don’t want to get blindsided when there is a baby on the way and find out you are on two fundamentally incompatible parenting pages. NAH.” ~ EngineeringDry7999
“I had the same reservations as op about this outdated practice.”
“I ended up doing it and it was not like I expected.”
“It was more a for your information I’m asking you daughter to marry me.”
“Honestly it probably made him really happy to get a heads up to the proposal.”
“Now that Im older and have my own children and understand it’s a different time now I’d never expect it or hold it against anyone if they did not give me the heads up.”
“I will say if when the day comes and they give me a little heads up I would really take that to heart.”
“I know OP went about it a little different then myself.”
“The first people I told of my plans were my parents.”
“Then after I bought the ring I went and told her parents so that they had a heads up as I felt that was a respectful thing to do.”
“I highly recommend that while OP does not ask and maybe even start out with I feel like this is a somewhat outdated to ask a father to marry his daughter.”
“I just wanted to give you a heads up that I’m asking her hand in marriage.”
“I know how much she cares about you and Its important to me that you are supportive of are marriage or something similar.”
“I can tell you as a Dad if my daughters partner came and told me they where planning to ask her to marry them.”
“Especially for myself as I do not expect that it would mean a lot to me.” ~ F**k_You_Alls
OP came back with some deets…
“EDIT: She had never told me that this was a requirement of getting engaged or married.”
“She only told me I needed to ask her dad’s permission after she said yes to me.”
“When I said I wanted to announce our engagement, that was the first time she told me I need to ask her dad’s permission.”
Reddit continued…
“See, I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong.”
“No matter how you boil this down, it’s a sexist tradition.”
“Just because she doesn’t want to rock the boat in her family by standing up to the sexist tradition, doesn’t mean that she’s not asking him to do something sexist by asking someone who isn’t involved at all in their relationship permission to marry her.”
“Especially considering the surrounding info. NTA.” ~ MarcusShining
“Honestly. They’ve been engaged for such a minimum amount of time and the fiancé is already having the in laws stomp all over boundaries and control into their lives.”
“It’s outdated from a time when woman where viewed as property which is degrading to woman and in a way degrading to him.”
“As he has to prostrate himself to another man and ask to acquire the fathers ‘property’… NTA.” ~ Papakilo666
Well OP… there doesn’t seem to be a perfect choice here.
Reddit pretty much agrees with you.
You’re gonna have to follow your heart.
Good luck.
And… Congrats?