The breastfeeding debate seems to have no end in sight.
Some people have no problem with children being breastfed in public.
Others are vehemently against public feeding.
It's become quite the hour button issue.
That's why it's a surprise when nursing mothers are derided by their own family members when feeding in private.
Not all generations progress from one to the next.
Case in point...
Redditor Otherwise_Fun_7279 wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for refusing to go to my parents anymore until my daughter is over 1?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I told my parents I was no longer coming over to their house."
"I just had a baby, and she is having a hard time with latching/feeding."
"Every time I have to feed her, my father makes rude remarks about how I need to cover up or how my daughter always 'has a boob in her mouth.'"
"I have explained before that covering up right now isn't an option because of the issues we're having, but when they resolve, I'd be more than happy to."
"I have also explicitly said that his remarks upset me."
"I finally made the decision to stop going over there until my daughter was no longer breastfeeding."
"My mom keeps inviting us over for dinner, but I've let her know that I am not interested in going over there anymore."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA for setting these boundaries or should I just let it go?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NTA. Your body, your baby, your boundaries."
"Your dad needs to grow up."
"My sister would just pop one out at the table--when we were dining in public."
"It's not a big deal if no one acts like it is." ~ LeamhAish
"The first time my dad walked into the room when I was trying (at the time less than successfully) to breastfeed, he looked at me, looked at my kiddo, and said 'Neither of you look very comfortable. Let me pull that ottoman over for you, and can I get you a thicker pillow for kiddo?'"
"And then did both those things, grabbed my water bottle and refilled it, and then said 'Yell if I can do anything to help,' and left."
"Five minutes later he sent my mom in, and then stayed out of our way while I cried - and when I couldn't stop, woke my husband (who had been catching a nap) to come help."
"In other words, he read the room, did what he could, and supported me."
"He would tell you that's the role of a parent of adult kids."
"OP's dad needs lessons." ~ Sashi-Dice
"Never bothered me one bit when my daughter breastfed my grandkids around me."
"It's a perfectly natural thing."
"If she needed anything from me, I got it."
"She had a lot of issues with latching at first too."
"Had to show her a couple of tricks I learned from when she was being breastfed by her mother. LOL."
"OP's dad doesn't need lessons, he needs to grow the f**k up. NTA." ~ WileEPyote
"My dad will get my wife an extra pillow for support and a blanket to keep her legs warm while she nurses our 5-month-old."
"He'll even bottle feed when we're out and insist we eat our food while it's hot."
"OP's dad needs to get over himself." ~ R4eth
"NTA. In other news, Sashi-Dice, I hope that you show your dad this thread!"
"He really is a good person, and it gives me hope that there are such good people out in the world." ~ JulieB1ggerbear
"This just about made me sob."
"What a great dad you have!"
"It took me a minute to be able to type because I had to blow my nose and wipe my eyes to be able to see enough."
"Give your dad a hug from me because he deserves it and because there are certain men in this world who just get it."
"Your dad is one. My dad was another."
"Thank you for sharing this." ~ NinjaGrandma6
"Yep. The dad has not matured at all. I'm Asian. From SEA."
"So generally more conservative."
"However breastfeeding is highly encouraged."
"My sis and I just use the term boobies when referring to our babies being hungry, for example, 'Are you hungry my love, would like some boobies?'"
"We'll speak in our mother tongue and just fit the word boobies in."
"It's smug we started 11 years ago as a joke and it stuck."
"Now my very traditional Asian dad LOVES his grandchildren."
"Whenever my dad was carrying any of his baby grandchildren, and they cry for milk he would just say in our native language 'Well I guess it's boobies time.'"
"We were hysterical when he said it years ago."
"But now nobody cares."
"We would feed in the living room while eating dinner together."
"He couldn't care less." ~ medewsamama
"My dad was very 'keep everything covered' when it came to clothing. Breastfeeding?"
"'The most beautiful thing in the world' and Valhalla help you if you tell a nursing mother to cover up!"
"I had twins so was topless for a lot of the time trying to tandem breastfeed and he'd just ask me if I needed a drink or something to eat every now and again."
"If I was comfortable on the lounge when one of his friends came to visit they'd go outside if his friend wasn't comfortable with me sitting mostly topless with a pillow in my lap and 2 babies latched on." ~ Aesient
"NTA. Also, two years old."
"Might need to breastfeed until about two."
"At least that's what our doctors recommended." ~ tango421
"NTA your dad is though."
"His comments are so degrading."
"I would be hesitant to go after a year." ~ helloeverybodee
"It's pretty gross that he is talking about his offspring and their offspring like that."
"Like in general those comments are degrading and disgusting."
"But with the added context it's even worse."
"NTA OP, though I hope your mom leaves his a**." ~ AceofToons
"NTA. You don't need to add any further stress to your daughter's feeding times."
"And your father's remarks are inappropriate." ~ FragrantEconomist386
"NTA. Your dad's being childish, and you don't need that kind of attitude."
"Stop going over." ~ Ma-Hu
"NTA. How obtuse and inappropriate of your father."
"You are fully justified in your decision!" ~ ___coolcoolcool
"NTA- your dad needs to grow up and keep his mouth shut."
"Making rude comments about you feeding your baby and shaming you is ridiculous." ~ Longjumping_Ad_1915
"NTA at all! Now is the time to set and hold your boundaries."
"Breastfeeding is hard enough (I've heard) without all the extra stress your father is making."
"He sounds like a tool." ~ canadakate94
"NTA. Fed is best."
"Do what you need to feed your baby."
"Also, there's nothing wrong with formula feeding if breastfeeding isn't working out."
"Lots of people put pressure on new mothers to E[xclusive] B[reast]F[eeding]."
"It's ok if you have to change course."
"I was very sick when my child was born and couldn't BF."
"Formula feeding was our only option."
"She's happy and healthy, and I have no regrets about it." ~ Ok_Arrival7478
"NTA. Your dad childishly doesn't want you to do what it takes to successfully feed your child while in his home, you NEED to be able to successfully feed your child."
"Tell your mom that she is welcome to visit but your house, your rules go both ways."
"Feeding your baby is your priority, not managing people who oughta know better feelings."
"Your house, boobs out!"
"Ignore your parents and focus on your little one."
"You'll get through this Momma." ~ Nonby_Gremlin
"NTA. Your parents though… and I say BOTH of your parents because your dad is being an a**hole and seems to sexualize you feeding your baby."
"Your mom is being an a**hole by not telling him to knock it off, and putting it on you to continue to play her game of pretending like nothing is wrong, continuing to come over for dinner, and further subjecting yourself to your dad's gross comments."
"She's asking you to keep a stiff upper lip so she and your dad can maintain their status quo at YOUR expense."
"I can't help but think that this kind of stuff isn't an isolated incident with your parents."
"While I fully respect your decision to hold off on visiting them until after you're done breastfeeding, as a mother I feel concerned that at that point, your daughter will be old enough to pick up on the way your dad treats women."
"I don't think the breastfeeding is the issue, and that these problems with your parents (specifically your dad, but also your enabling mom) need to be seriously addressed for both your sake and your daughter's sake." ~ IndependenceHot9023
"NTA. Your Dad certainly is one."
"Breastfeeding is very difficult for a lot of moms and babies, and your own parents should be supporting you in this journey."
"Your father needs to learn that boobs are foremost for nourishing babies and there isn't anything wrong with seeing one."
"Next time you do eat with him, tell him he needs to put a blanket over his head so he can see how much he enjoys eating that way. Also, your mother should be sticking up for you towards your father."
"At least with a man, I understand a little of his reticence at seeing a boob, but your mother should understand and empathize with you!!!" ~ OpalCats
"The only thing that matters right now is that baby gets fed."
"His feelings about it are meaningless."
"There's a reason why public breastfeeding is protected in all 50 states. NTA." ~ Lucky-Speed3614
OP came back with an update...
"We talked about it in family therapy, and my dad compared it to him pulling out his private parts and peeing in front of me."
"I told him that was a complete apples-to-oranges comparison and he needed to grow up."
"My mother told him she didn't want to have to choose between seeing her granddaughter or him, but she would choose her granddaughter."
"He started yelling and cursing at me so I walked out of therapy."
"I guess this is the hill he wants to die on. How disappointing."
Well, OP, Reddit is with you. Your baby has to eat, and it's not an easy process.
It seems like your father may need some deeper therapy than you originally thought.
You have to put you first.
Sounds like you'll be ok.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp