Successful parenting requires an equal amount of input from each spouse in order to ensure they can come up with the right solutions together for the betterment of their children.
But that's easier said than done.
A husband was conflicted when his wife mentioned their daughter's complaint about no longer wishing to continue with a physical activity she's actively been engaged in.
After struggling against what his gut had to say about the conflict, the husband turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for moral judgment on a hypothetical "Would I Be The A**hole" (WIBTA) scenario.
There, Redditor Business_Bat_4962 asked:
"WIBTA if I withdrew my daughter from sports against my wife's wishes."
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My daughter (15 f[female]) is a competitive gymnast. Her team travels all over the country to compete."
"She is a sophomore in High school and wants to stop competing because her body hurts, she is at the gym 14 hours a week, she lacks the drive and passion for the sport and she wants to do more high school things and concentrate on her studies."
"She is a honor roll student and takes AP classes in sophomore year."
The OP continued:
"My wife (43 f[female]) is against it because my daughter's season just started and she made a commitment to the team and she should see it through. We also spent $1,800 this summer on camps and sessions to help her get better."
"She thinks my daughter will become lazy and want to hang out with friends and her chores and school work will suffer."
The OP tried to be diplomatic.
"I (43 m[ale]) understand my wife's point about the commitment to the team and the money. I also understand my daughters point about being sore as I used to be weightlifter and wanting to be more active in high school."
Alas, it all boiled down to this.
"I am trying to find middle ground but I don't think it exists. My gut is to protect my daughter and withdraw her but I know it will put me in the dog house big time. I feel stuck between a rock and hard place."
Anonymous strangers weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
Many Redditors thought the OP would not be the a**hole (NTA) in the scenario.
"NTA."
"Your daughter no longer has a passion for gymnastics and wants to prepare for her future through education."
"Your wife's forcing your daughter to stay in gymnastics is going to hurt their relationship. Is there any reason why your wife believes your daughter will start slacking on chores and school work?"
"Trust your gut - your wife probably has good intentions, but your daughter's wishes need to come into play. 15 is old enough to have input on what sports/activities she does. Sorry about what will probably be an extended stay in the dog house." – Comfortable-Sea-2454
"NTA."
"Also, listen to your daughter. Her reasons for wanting to stop the sport are valid. Forget about the money, that's gone. And about her behaviour, I'm kind of shocked that your wife doesn't believe in her own daughter - really, an honor roll AP student isn't going to change overnight."
"It sounds like your wife is one of those dance moms, only for gymnastics."
"Just reread - logically, at the start of the season is the second best time to pull out of the team ( the best time would be at the end of the previous one)."
"Also, your wife says daughter made a commitment to the team? So she cares more about the team than her own daughter? Wow." – Lisbei
"This. Please listen to your daughter. And do NOT let your wife dismiss the 'her body hurts' complaint. Our Eldest stuck it out too long. Turned out they have EDS and pushing through the pain has permanently damaged their joints." – Irishwol
"Agreed. A complaint about everything hurting should never be ignored."
"A kid who's done the same thing since they were little is going to be pretty damn used to the normal aches and tiredness of healthy exercise - and they aren't going to complain about that sort of thing because they will consider it normal."
"So if they are starting to complain, something's changed, either in their body or the training. And as a parent you owe it to them to believe them and investigate when they say 'it hurts.' " – Normal-Height-8577
"Exactly this. If it's not a new activity or a new level of activity then she shouldn't be in pain all the time. Gymnastics, football, wrestling, competitive cheerleading, heck even sports like lacrosse, baseball and tennis, are all sports with the potential to cause long term if not lifelong damage."
"It's better to allow kids to drop years too early then a second too late." – GeekySkittle
"That's what I immediately worried. I was "encouraged" to be in cheer, dance, gymnastics for at least a decade as a kid. I regularly got sprains and injuries."
"It took my regularly life to figure out why- I was just officially diagnosed last week. If I had known early I could have mitigated some of the damage. NTA/WNBTA" – LeNerdmom
"Yeah, 'her body hurts' was an immediate red flag to me. I know tons of people with EDS who were very active as kids and either had to quit sports because of pain or are seriously disabled from it now."
"(Obviously EDS is not the only condition that can cause chronic pain in teenagers but it's the one I'm most familiar with. And plenty of hypermobile people get into gymnastics because they think their mobility is helping them...)" – sootfire
"NTA."
"The $1800 is gone, no matter what. It's not coming back. So you can be out $1800 and have a miserable, resentful child or you can be out $1800 and have a happy, balanced child."
"As for the commitment to the team, it happens. Yes, it's important to honor your obligations but it's also important to learn that you don't have to sacrifice yourself for others. If your daughter is no longer on this team, are we talking about girls that won't be able to make it to the Olympics because of it? Most likely not. No one is irreplaceable, and someone will take her place."
"Maybe consider giving her a thinking-about-it period. Tell her to remain on the team for X amount of time, and then if she's firm in her desire to want to quit she can." – Wishyouamerry
"NTA."
"Her body hurts. At 16."
"Let me repeat, louder, for your wife: your child's, 16 year old body is hurting. Do you, as a parent, willingly accept your child's hurts when they're due to something not needed nor wanted?"
"That's reason enough to justify retiring, I'm sorry. I know it comes hand in hand with competitive sports, but it's her body and her peace of mind. Both need to last for at least 60 more years."
"Let her be a normal teenager for once in her life." – notdancingQueen
"I was like your daughter back in middle school. I wanted to quit gymnastics to focus on school and have more free time, my body was in pain with severe tendinitis, I lacked the drive etc. My mom don't want me to quit but eventually she let me and I've never really regretted it."
"After quitting I did other sports like cheerleading and diving. Edited to add: NTA. Your daughter should be able to make this decision herself and she is old enough to know what she wants. She is also getting to the age where most people I know ended up quitting gymnastics anyways, if you don't desire to pursue it in college then it's a lot harder to continue with the sport after 18." – mochimmy3
"NTA - If her body hurts it is trying to warn her something is wrong. Your wife is the AH, as it seems only to do with money. If your daughter continues, and injures herself, or worse permanently has health issues because of not stopping it will cost a LOT more money and pain."
"If being lazy is a concern, then a talk about what she will do instead is in order."
"My eldest daughter did ballet from age 3 to 16. Just before her 17th she said, she was tired, her joints hurt, her feet were jacked from pointe, and she knew she would never be a prima ballerina, and it was not worth destroying her body."
"Okay, then focus on school. She did, and now as a married woman, she is currently going for her PhD, and is happy and healthy." – PoppysWorkshop
"NTA. I was a competitive gymnast until 14 when I tore my Achilles. Surgery and six weeks on crutches, two months off from the gym. I discovered a whole new world out there while I was off and my body felt healthy for once."
"I could actually go to sleep overs because I didn't have to be at the gym at 7am on Saturdays! I never went back. When raising my kids, I always let them dictate their limits with extra curriculars but wanted them well balanced- play an instrument, play a sport, learn a different language."
"They managed their activities with good grades and social lives." – RespectMyAuthority74
Redditors continued to agree that the OP would not be the a**hole if he pulled his daughter out from competing to let her focus more on her social life and academics.
In this case, commenters thought addressing the daughter's physical and mental well-being was more important than continuing to allow her to subject herself to physical risk, especially if she's already experienced major fatigue and pain from the grueling training.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp