It's always a risk to take one person's side during an argument or disagreement between two people.
In some cases, there is a clear right and wrong.
Other times, however, a situation is so complicated and nuanced that it's probably best to avoid siding with one person or getting involved at all.
Especially when this rift is occurring in your family.
As Redditor Dry-Stomach-2406 and his family were packing for a recent vacation, the original poster (OP) heard a commotion between his wife and son.
Upon learning of what transpired, the OP expressed to his wife that she could have handled things a bit differently.
An opinion his wife didn't appreciate one bit.
Wondering if he mishandled the situation, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for siding with our son after he screamed at my wife?"
The OP explained why he found himself in hot water with his wife ahead of their vacation:
"Just created this account because the whole situation feels ridiculous and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it."
"We're about to leave for a trip to visit family across the country."
"Yesterday our 8-year-old son Jake got into a huge argument with my wife, and she's still acting cold toward both of us today."
"For some quick context: Jake is mildly autistic."
"He struggles with emotions sometimes but is otherwise a pretty normal kid."
"Loves sports, loves video games, and wants nothing to do with anything he sees as girly, which is pretty typical for his age."
"I was playing video games with him while my wife was packing the last of her stuff."
"She called him into the bedroom."
"Maybe ten seconds later, I hear him yelling:"
"'ARE YOU SERIOUS?!'"
"'WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!'"
"'GET THAT STUPID THING AWAY FROM ME!!!'"
"I went in thinking I was about to walk into him getting grounded, but instead I see my wife trying to force a pink, sparkly shirt on him."
"It had some celebrity on it and was clearly meant for a girl."
"I asked what was going on, and she said his cousin Jennifer (who we're about to see) is about his height, and she wanted to see if the shirt would fit before packing it."
"Jake, while on the verge of crying, yelled 'I don't care, figure it out yourself, I hate you' and ran out."
"I told my wife she should have known better."
"It was obvious forcing him to try that on would upset him."
"She got frustrated and said it's just a shirt and that trying it on was the least he could do after everything we do for him, like therapy, appointments, activities, etc."
"That completely threw me."
"We're his parents."
"He doesn't owe us for basic parenting."
"This really raised my eyebrows because I've never heard her talk like that before."
"She went on to say that he's been getting more difficult lately (which, to be fair, isn't completely wrong) and that he should be punished for acting like a little jerk."
"I told her absolutely not."
"We're about to visit his cousins and I'm not punishing him right before vacation because he didn't want to wear a shirt made for girls."
"I said we can bring it up in therapy after the trip."
"She argued that he screamed at her and I said 'Yeah, no sh*t he screamed at you."
"You tried to make him try on girls clothes."
"I'd yell at my mom if she tried to pull that on me'."
"She stayed cold to both of us all night and refused to make dinner."
"I ended up ordering a pizza, which she took as me rewarding him for 'throwing a tantrum', since like most kids his age it's his favorite food."
"Never mind the fact that ordering takeout the night before traveling is just the smart thing to do so you don't have to deal with dishes."
"That was yesterday, and she's still acting cold toward both of us this morning."
"And to make it better, my sister-in-law always automatically takes my wife's side anytime we disagree, so I'm fully expecting her unsolicited opinion as soon as we get there."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditos weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
The Reddit community generally agreed that the OP was, indeed, the a**hole for siding with his son, with many having trouble sympathizing with anyone.
Many felt that the OP was being far too lenient on his son, and that even with his condition, he needed to make it clear to his son that this sort of behavior wasn't acceptable.
Even if they also felt it was wrong for the OP's wife to force their son to try on a girly shirt which she should have known he wouldn't like:
"Honestly?"
"ESH a bit."
"'WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!'"
"That is not an okay way for an eight-year-old to be handling themselves."
"Your wife was totally out of line, but you can and still should have a discussion with your son about how it's okay to stand up for yourself, but there are better ways than to scream at your mom."
"I'm not pearl-clutching over the word 'hell' or anything, but if this is how an 8-year-old is talking... you guys should really consider how you talk to each other and where he's getting this from."- MyAskRedditAcct
"ESH."
"Would you really tell your mom; who the hell do you think you are, at 8 years old, because she asked you to try on a shirt?"
"Were you raised in a barn?"
"Moms not making him wear the shirt forever, it's just to test size."
"Plus, you say he's 'mildly autistic' - you should be able to still teach him not to yell at his mother, despite it being okay that he doesn't like girly clothes."
"Mom is also TAH for acting like son owes her something for being taken care of."-
pissed_bitch
"ESH."
"Pink shirt does not equal cross-dressing, and I'm assuming you have some other problematic gender ideologies that come with that way of thinking."
"The first thing you should have said is, 'You don't speak to your mother that way'."
"Because, no matter the situation, this is true."
"That's your wife."
"If you're gonna jump in blind, it better be on her side."- One_Relief8832
Others, however, felt the OP was the only real a**hole in this situation, feeling that the OP missed a valuable teaching moment with his son and also could have handled things better with his wife:
"You missed the chance to do some basic parenting."
"Your 8-year-old child should not be screaming at his mother like that or using such language."
"Whilst you may side with your son on his reasons, there is no way you should be condoning the action he took."
"Not nipping these things in the bud could be what is causing him to get more difficult, something which you concede is true."
"Have to say YTA here."
"Teach your son there are better ways to handle these things and that screaming at people is not okay."
"If you condone him speaking to his mother like that, then I can only imagine how he speaks to others."
"Parent as a team, not as individuals."- Uubilicious_The_Wise
"YTA."
"Your wife should have dropped it with the shirt when she saw it triggered your son, but his screaming at and insulting his mom is unacceptable."
"There should be some reasonable consequences for your son."
"You need to accept that you are not a single parent or a single decision-maker."
"You also seem weirdly overly sensitive on this 'girliness' issue yourself."
"Your wife's transactional comment re your son helping out was off and should be addressed in therapy."
"Maybe she feels you are setting yourself up as the fun parent and she gets cast as the bad guy all the time/ has to handle his negative behaviors by herself without support from you."
"Then you two boys pooh-pooh her because she's just a girl with dumb ideas that your son doesn't have to listen to while you are the real decision-maker."
"You should take a step back and take a good look at the dynamics in your house."-AgileSurprise1966
"YTA, your kid has picked up on a lot of internalized misogyny from you, and is acting on it."
"He's treating his mother like sh*t because you taught him to."
"Why didn't YOU make dinner after she refused?"
"Why haven't you corrected him about being so anti-girly?"
"I can almost see the 'Women, am I right?' with that last sentence."- laztheinfamous
It wasn't completely unreasonable for the OP to call out his wife for doing something he knew would upset their son.
That being said, the way their son behaved wasn't an appropriate way to speak to anyone, let alone his own parents.
There is always an opportunity in situations like these for someone to come out as the bigger person.
An opportunity the OP completely missed.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp