In the olden days, unless you were a part of a vast criminal conspiracy, phones were private once switchboard operators were no longer needed to connect calls.
The technology to tap into what was happening on a person's phone didn't exist in a way available to the general public.
Now? All someone needs is a phone left open or a passcode to gain access to private messages and call logs.
A woman whose fiancé learned about messages on her phone turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Comfortable_Ant_1375 asked:
"AITA? My Fiancé and his sister went through my phone and found upsetting messages between my sister and I."
The original poster (OP) explained:
"OK, so I need advice. I'm a 37, female engaged to 40, male. We have been together almost 10 years. I will try to keep this short as possible."
"My sister-in-law to be went through my phone and found messages of me venting to my sister about my fiancé and some of his relatives. She showed him the messages and now things are just very awkward between us all. I did apologize to my fiancé and his sister via the phone, but we are yet to speak face to face about it.
"I am aware things will never be the same again as some of the messages were quite unfiltered, but they were all true. No one else was supposed to see them and I forgot to delete them."
"Some of the messages were about how I'm going to break things off with him due to some behavior traits I have brought up and some past events that he continues to gaslight me about including him cheating on me emotionally."
"Anyway, there are so many things that have happened and I have previously tried to end things with him but he always promised things would improve. Some things have, some haven't."
"Anyway, I vented on Whatsapp to my sister and we said some mean things and now my fiancé thinks he doesn't know me anymore. Honestly, I feel bad for those messages, but at the same time I can't help thinking it was overdue for us to address some underlying issues and he won't discuss anything."
"Even before he saw the messages, he has always swept issues under the rug and this seems to be a pattern in their family."
"All he keeps saying is he doesn't care, but his sister is a different story. And he says it as if I'm in trouble with his sister, and I'd better start sucking up if I want to be accepted by her."
"There is so much nuance to my story, and I'm afraid to go into too much detail because so much happened in our relationship that led to my venting, and my sister is the only one I can vent to. I avoid sharing relationship issues with friends."
"Please help. What's the point if we can't address the buildup to my venting?"
"Also, why did they go through my phone? I feel I deserve an apology from them for going through my messages and phone behind my back."
"I will admit that one of the major issues in the relationship is how much he manipulates. Everything from conversations to details of events."
"Am I the a**hole here?"
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"Am I the a**hole for venting about him and his family and expecting an apology from them for going through my phone in the first place?"
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP was the a**hole to themselves (YTA)...
...but not the a**hole in this situation (NTA).
"YTA for staying with him when you clearly have a problematic relationship already. Now he and his sister massively violated your privacy and then got mad cuz you told your sister the truth.
"WTF? Please, find your backbone and your self-respect and gtfo this toxic af relationship!" ~ bmw5986
"I had to stop reading at, 'My fiancé and his sister went through my phone' because I knew OP was the a**hole for still calling him her fiancé."
"He'd be my kicked in the a** by the door ex fiancé the minute I knew this. YTA, OP, because you are allowing yourself to be totally disrespected, and you privacy invaded. I'm worried for you. Please see sense and leave this man." ~ LaurelCanyoner
"Let's back up a second. OP is NTA for venting to her sister. Her sister in law to be snooped and shared the confidences, and they are the AH for THAT."
"But OP, don't be the a**hole to yourself as the folks above have pointed out, this is a problematic relationship and we don't think it's healthy to stay in it unless you just want to be disrespected by your fiance's family for years to come (unless y'know, you just need to get a starter marriage and a divorce under your belt for any reason)." ~ WhizGidget
"How many red flags do you need to see before you leave?" ~ Obvious-Arrival2571
"Those aren't red flags, they're stop signs." ~ ImHere4TheReps
"Sunk cost fallacy. She has spent 10 years putting up with him and doesn't want to have to start over to find a new partner."
"It's a fallacy because you end up living a miserable life instead of having to do harder work to make a good life." ~ RosieAU93
"My EX-wife would go through my phone, find nothing but stupid memes, and still find a reason to get mad over them. I put a pin code on it, and that drove her up the f*cking wall. Which is why she's my EX."
"OP better tighten up, because they just showed their hand on how they intend to control her." ~ cyclopswasright_49
"I had to go back twice to check the ages and timeline. A ten-year relationship and decidedly knocking on middle-aged territory, and yet, this reads like the stupid sh*t that teenagers do."
"OP is the a**hole only to herself. Get rid of this man, his toxic sister, and go get a grown-up." ~ Emmatheaccountant
"YTA for staying with a cheater." ~ keepingitreal02
"Maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate the whole relationship. He didn't respect your privacy, and his sister violated it."
"What is your relationship going to be like? If there is this much distrust, maybe you need to think about the future." ~ RadiantGrocery1889
"I seriously can't believe you're still with him after invading your privacy, cheating, and gaslighting you! Good lord! I'd rather be single for the rest of my life!" ~ Ok_Mountain_2449
"Girl, what are you doing with this guy? He emotionally cheats on you, and his sister is going through your phone? And now they're both trying to make you the bad guy?"
"This will never end—he clearly has no boundaries, and neither does his sister. Just because you've been with him 10 years doesn't mean you need to spend the next 10 with these horrible people."
"Being single doesn't mean being alone. You have friends and your sister. Leave him and do better." ~ tickledpickles69
"Why do you not have a password for your phone? I have the initial passcode, then I have certain apps locked behind an additional passcode."
"YTA. Never trust anyone with your phone or computer."
"If someone wants to verify something and you're willing to share, you can go through the pertinent info while you are holding the device and controlling it."
"But allowing anyone unfettered access to your phone is irresponsible on so many levels. Ditch this person!" ~ ImaginaryPark6311
"I'm confused about why you are justifying yourself and not pissed that she went through your phone! I would be pissed off and be demanding an apology, not entertaining comments such as you needing to be ready to suck up to the sneaky bitch!"
"I would go on the offence and hold them accountable for such a gross violation of privacy." ~ Secure_Morning7464
...but not the a**hole in this situation (NTA).
"They. Went. Through. Your. Phone."
"You are allowed to vent to a relative or friend especially if 'fiance' won't discuss issues. And brings HIS family into it."
"You are looking at the rest of your life, and you can trust that the rest of his side will get involved. What will you do when he demands that you cut your sister and other family members from your life?"
"Forget premarital counseling, get some for yourself. Sometimes being single is better than being alone in a marriage. NTA!" ~
"You are the wronged party. You've been putting up with infidelity and communication issues for 10 years. It's beyond me why you would deign to marry such a person."
"Your SIL had absolutely no right to go through your phone. It's a major intrusion and should not be forgiven. Ever. She should be sucking up to you."
"I hope you leave these idiots in the past where they belong and then you won't have to offload on your sister." ~ MoomahTheQueen
"Girl, PLEASE get away from the toxic man AND his family! Do NOT let them make YOU feel bad about them going through YOUR phone, because this is only the beginning. And please tell me that you don't have children with him."
"Run NOW, or your life will be sh*t for as long as you live! You are NTA, and don't let them make you feel like you are."
"You don't have to be accepted by his sister, or anyone else, for that matter. F*ck him AND his sister."
"GET. OUT. NOW."
"Wishing you a speedy and SAFE transition, because once you marry him, your life will become much, much, MUCH, worse. He will defer to her from now on about everything you do."
"She is going to criticize you every chance she gets, and he will be standing right by her, and you'll have to be pitted against her for the rest of your life. Go!!!" ~ MamaDee1959
Hopefully OP takes the harsh judgment to heart and finds the strength to leave this relationship.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp