Putting together a guest list for a wedding can be an exhausting process.
Putting together a seating arrangement... can be terrifying.
Families have issues.
They don't go away because of a happy event.
So what is the happy couple to do?
Redditor Regular-Dare1057 wanted to discuss his experience and get some feedback. So naturally, he came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
He asked:
"AITA for inviting my nephew to my wedding despite his estrangement from my brother?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I (33 M[ale]) am marrying my fiancé (37 M) this winter."
"We're putting together the guest list to send the invitations out and have run into an issue with my nephew and my brother."
"My brother (38 M) was 18 when his Girl]Friend] told him she was pregnant."
"They ended up moving in together and my brother decided to go to find work as a mechanic rather than go to college as he'd planned."
"My nephew was born a little while later."
"They got married when she told him she was pregnant with their second kid (15 F[emale]) and then had two more, both 10 M."
"Ever since my nephew was born, he's been literally one of my favorite people."
"I babysat him plenty of times, same with my other siblings, and have spent my twenties as their Guncle."
"My brother and I were close as kids, and I've been close to his kids as well."
"Five years ago, my brother found out my nephew wasn't his, and his now ex-wife had been sleeping with someone else at the time and had suspected my oldest nephew wasn't my brother's since he was a little kid."
"They ended up getting a divorce, and my brother didn't seek custody of my oldest nephew and said he didn't want to see him."
"He told me that he needed time to process and would try to patch things up later."
"That idea was kind of ruined when my nephew turned up at my brother's apartment begging to talk."
"It turned into an argument between them."
"For context, our father had just passed a couple of months earlier."
"During the argument, my nephew said something along the lines of 'No wonder mom f**ked somebody else. I bet Grandpa hated you.'"
"My brother cut things off then and there and has refused to see my nephew since."
"I stepped in as the main male figure in my nephew's life, much as I dislike my ex-S[ister]-I[n]-L[aw]."
"I even took him out for his 18th birthday and took him looking at universities, and he now goes to my alma mater."
"I asked my brother how he wants to handle the seating situation if they don't want to be close together."
"My brother was angry. I'd even invite my nephew after everything that happened."
"He said it'd be like inviting my ex-SIL, 'He's not family, he's just the prick who disrespected our dad.'"
"I said he's being petty and childish taking the words of a scared and angry 14-year-old so personally."
"He was a kid who said something shi**y because his entire world was falling apart, and the person he'd relied on for his whole life was suddenly pulling away."
"And instead of being understanding and doing family therapy or something like a grownup, my brother decided to give adult weight to a teenager's words and cut him off completely."
"My nephew has said he's okay with not going if it's causing an issue, but I told him not to be ridiculous."
"He's important to me, and I want him there when I marry my person."
"I told him he shouldn't let my brother's inability to let go be his problem."
"My fiance agrees with me."
"My mom and sister both say I need to see it from my brother's perspective."
"I think he's just being petty."
The OP was left to wonder:
"AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP was NOT the A**hole.
"That boy lived with you all for 14 years, and no one did what you did for him?"
Like his grandma, didn't she feel something about losing her grandson?"
"The dad, he saw all his life development till 14, took him to the doctors, changed diapers, played with him, bought bicycle, picnics,"
"Christmas, Halloweens... Etc."
"And then cut that poor boy like this?"
"Wooosh memories and emotions deleted 👐."
"Bro even if he is not a blood relative you and your family are HIS family for 14 years."
"NTA... don't cut that child from your life." ~ C_Khoga
"I'm not blaming OP's nephew, I do feel bad for OP's brother… he stepped up to marry the pregnant girlfriend thinking she is pregnant with his child."
"He skipped college to do this."
"Finding out his ex-wife lied to him that the child is NOT biologically his... that is big a blow to a person!!! "
"The Ex-wife is the AH!"
"OP is wonderful for supporting his nephew!"
"Support your brother, too, because he is also the victim."
"We all need to put ourselves in OP's shoes too."
"I see both sides to this."
"Nephew and OP's brother are victims created by the AH ex-wife!" ~ Any-Maintenance5828
"100%, you said it right."
"It's OP's special day, and he gets to pick who comes."
"If the brother doesn't like that, he can simply not go. It's not like he's the one getting married." ~ Huxley_The_Third
"Your brother is allowed to set boundaries, 'I won't be at your wedding if the kid is there because of my mental health,' and you're allowed to say 'ok.'"
"Someone's boundaries are their own."
"If they try to manipulate or change you or your choices to enforce their boundaries, that crosses the line into controlling. NTA." ~ Shmoopy37
"He's acting like a child, so explain it to him like you would with a child."
"'Uninviting him is not an option, as this is MY wedding day, not yours.'"
"'Your only choices are between attending and either being civil or ignoring him, or not attending at all.'"
"'If you cannot choose, then I will make the choice for you, and you will not be attending.'"
"NTA." ~ allie06nd
"NTA, but your brother is an AH."
"He raised this kid for FOURTEEN years and then ditched him over something he had no control over and then the kid lashed out as a teen?"
"Yeah NTA, I'm glad you maintained a relationship with the kid."
"Your brother may not have had to continue being a father to this young man, but he didn't have to be cruel to him." ~ Specialist-Owl2660
"NTA by a long shot."
"It's not your nephew's fault that he's an affair child, and he certainly needs support right now."
"Your brother can absolutely feel betrayed and can be hurt by your nephew's comment, but this isn't about his feelings."
"Your nephew's life fell apart as much as your brother's did, and you're trying to be the best help you can be." ~ Anonymotron42
"NTA. And as to your mother and sister, this is the perfect time for the old line, 'I would try to see things from his perspective, but I can't get my head that far up my own a**.'" ~ B3Gay_DoCr1mes
"A 14-year-old's reaction after learning that his dad isn't his dad and getting rejected by his dad was normal behavior for a 14-year-old."
"Your brother needs to act his age and work on his issues and come to terms with everything and stop blaming a little boy who called him daddy NTA." ~ WillaLane
"NTA... However, you don't get to say how your brother should feel."
"What should your brother do?"
"Does him deciding not to be a part of your nephew's life suck? Yes."
"It is his choice, though."
"He was 18, and his ex derailed his whole life with a lie."
"All his plans had to change because he was now responsible for a child."
"He sacrificed what he wanted his future to be for a child only for it to not even be his."
"Until you experience this, you can't say he should be over it."
"Every time he sees your 'nephew,' it is a reminder, and some people can't get over that kind of hurt and betrayal." ~ kinoki44
"NTA. AS ALWAYS, you invite who you want and let them accept or decline."
"If you want your nephew there, invite him."
"If your brother is going to boycott your wedding because of that, it's his choice."
"Always assume everyone can get along for the sake of YOUR wedding (or other event)."
"The person asking you NOT to invite someone is almost always the one holding on to a grudge, and trying to force you to pick sides."
"You don't have to pick sides."
"They can either 'play nice' for one day, or they can stay home."
"As for the seating arrangements, it's clear your brother doesn't consider this person to be 'family.'"
"So you would seat the nephew at the 'fun younger people' table."
"Unless your brother declines, then you can decide to seat nephew with family if that's what you think everyone would prefer." ~ 1962Michael
"NTA. I understand your point of view."
"You babysat and bonded with him."
"He is your nephew, cool!"
"But I can't bring myself to completely dismiss your brother's feelings."
"Your dad had just died, and he was trying to deal with the whole 'my wife cheated, son isn't biologically mine' snafu, and then your nephew confronts him and shouts about how he deserved to be cheated on and that his dead father hated him... that's... not great."
"I mean, your brother is still an AH, but I kind of get why he has issues." ~ efrendel
"You do you as long as you know this could end your relationship with your brother."
"Because to him you will definitely be taking the side of his cheating wife."
"Everyone always tries to gloss over the feelings of the father in these situations."
"There's even a Reddit post where the mother found out she wasn't and everyone said she was not the ahole for cutting conduct."
"NAH, but you be better off fixing it before the wedding because you're going to destroy one of your relationships." ~ becauseofblue
"You're definitely NTA!"
"Poor kid felt abandoned by his dad and lashed out, but we have no idea what the dad said to the kid in that argument!"
"He was 14."
"Your brother was an adult."
"He should have acted like one and explained to the kid what was going on, that he loved him still and just needed some time."
"Instead, he didn't want to see him and didn't want custody. Of course, the kid will think he didn't want him."
"Who wouldn't?"
"Your brother needs to grow up."
"Taking out his anger for his ex-wife on his child is insane and incredibly sad." ~ NaturalPeace00
"NTA - your brother is taking it out on the fourteen-year-old child."
"It's not the boy's fault his mother cheated on your brother." ~ Decent-Historian-207
Reddit is with you, OP.
Your poor nephew.
Your brother's pain is valid.
But he needs to figure out how to process his trauma.
Your wedding, your rules.
Congratulations!
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp