I've heard "tradition" described as "peer pressure from dead people."
It's an amusing and apt description, but some of that pressure to uphold traditions comes from the living.
A new father who doesn't want to be forced to follow a family tradition turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Lucky-Indication-928 asked:
"AITA for telling my mom to shut up and accept that my wife and I aren't naming our kids the way she and dad named me and my siblings?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My wife and I (both late 20s) had our first child together in June. Before he was born, there was a lot of talk about names from different family members on both sides, but the pressure to tell what our name choice was centered on my side specifically."
"We didn't tell a soul what the name would be until our son was born and we had left the hospital. My parents were disappointed when we announced our son's name."
"My family are very traditional in how they named us. We were each named after grandparents and that's how they feel everyone should name their kids."
"My wife's family don't have a tradition when it comes to naming babies. They just name them and go."
"No fuss or insisting on certain names. But my wife's side tends to favor more uncommon and unusual names."
"My wife's and my taste tends to lean a lot more to her side than to mine. Which is how we ended up choosing the name Hollis for our son."
"This was not something my parents liked because they expected our son to be either Jack (my dad) or Parker (my father-in-law). But I know they were expecting a little Jack to be born."
"So that added to their reaction. But they quizzed us on our choice to 'break tradition' and I told them it wasn't a tradition my wife's family used and we decided we weren't going to have one either."
"Over the last couple of months, both my parents have questioned why and have wanted to discuss other names for future babies. My mom has been the worst by far."
"My dad is bad about questioning our choice of name. He just didn't go as far as my mom."
"She asked why we went with something so unlike the names we have in our family. I told her our family wasn't the only family involved, but that we also didn't take the family tastes into account."
"I was always aware people could be a little opinionated when it came to other people's baby names. But never realized someone could go as far as my mom."
"We went with what we liked. She pointed out our taste were a lot like my in-laws' and I said yes, but that it wasn't about my in-laws and their taste, it was about my wife's and my taste."
"I told her I was done discussing it and since that point I now change the topic or end the conversation when she brings it up or refuses to let it go."
"We had a little naming ceremony on Saturday and my mom decided she was going to dig in her heels about the name and she told me we'd picked a stupid name and she hated it, she wanted us to change it and name him Jack or Parker."
"She told me we had no business breaking a long held tradition in our family and there's a reason those traditions are there so foolish people can't name their babies the worst names imaginable."
"She also said my in-laws must be so smug thinking they'll have at least two stupidly named grandkids like they had all stupidly named kids. I lost my temper."
"I told her to shut up and accept that we're not naming our kids like she and dad named me and my siblings and I told her she would need to leave and learn to be more respectful because I would not take those insults against my wife or her family lying down."
"My mom hated being told to shut up and she said I had no excuse for rudeness to her face. I thought she was crazy when she was rude."
"AITA, though?"
The OP summed up their situation.
"I told my mom to shut up. Of everything I said and did, that is where I really question whether I'm the a**hole."
"Like, I could have figured out a way to put her in her place and make it known that I was unhappy with the way she was talking about my wife and her family and the way she spoke about me and my wife, without literally telling her to shut up to her face."
"That's not something I would typically do."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA on soooo many levels. The biggest ones are the ones that follow:"
"You're not a child, nor a blank slate that she gets to project her whims and wills onto you and you're just going to follow them, her not thinking that it's alright for you to have your own likes and dislikes outside of hers."
"Your mother just insulted your in-laws because they aren't like her, saying that they have stupid names, and stupid ideas (their naming traditions in her mind are stupid) so, she also insulted your wife. She said her name is stupid."
"She is infringing on your right and ability to parent your child, insisting that what you have done is the wrong action, and you must listen to the adult who obviously knows best and bow down to what she has told you."
"She has told you that she will not support your naming ideas, what other things is she going to start pushing on for how you parent because it's not what she wants?"
"Honestly, you need to have a conversation with your parents—WITHOUT your wife there. They're your family, so the problems from them are YOUR problems to deal with, not hers. She's just supporting you here, not being a target."
"Tell them they can either drop this, and it never goes any further, including into criticizing your wife, in-laws, how you parent going forward, or they get to take a break from the baby."
"I don't know why, but some families take the birth of a baby and really try to push their weight and control around and try to dictate things when it comes to the baby. You either nip it in the bud now, or it's gonna be hell with them going forward on choices you making the future."
"It reads to the extreme that your mom is jealous over something to do with your wife/the in-laws and is now shaken at the idea of not having a grandchild named after her."
"I agree with naming children their own names, personally. I want them to be their own person, not always be compared to someone else who's had a chance to live their life and make their mistakes." ~ TheAuthenticLorax
"NTA. Many people would compromise and give the kid a middle name from the family, but you needn't perform that compromise by any means."
"It sounds like your mother is tradition-bound. So am I, my only biological child (and thus the only one I named) being named after both grandmothers."
"But my grandchildren will be named what they're named when they're born, should my children choose to have them, and I'm sure they'll be lovely and adorable even if they're unlikely to be named in ways I would choose." ~ jpallan
"NTA. And since she hates the name so much it seems she hates the child attached to it by extension. Honestly I would tell her that it's fine."
"Since she dislikes the name so much she doesn't get to see the child attached to it until she calms her sh*t."
"I'd be worried about her calling him Jack behind your back and you wouldn't even know until your son can speak and tell you what she's doing." ~ pixiecantsleep
"NTA. If your mother wants to have a say in naming a baby, then she should have another baby."
"She was unnecessarily rude and disrespectful to you, your wife, your in-laws and your child."
"I'd seriously consider going no contact with her if she doesn't change her behaviour as your son will pick up on it as he grows up and it is not acceptable to expose your family to her." ~ frozenbroccolis
"NTA. It's as simple as this, if the kid isn't theirs, they don't get to decide the name. If they have a naming tradition, it doesn't matter, still not their kid, so it's not their decision."
"They have no right to insist the name be changed and they shouldn't get sh*t talking the name, you or your wife for picking that name and not a name they wanted you to pick."
"Tell them to either grow up and accept the name, or they can look forward to not seeing their grandkids." ~ kornflakes1989
The OP provided a bit of an update.
"Very low contact is being considered over this."
"It will depend on what the reaction after this is like and whether they stop or continue insulting our son's name and my in-laws and my wife and myself."
"We didn't use either father's name. We considered a few names, but ultimately, we ultimately chose Cameron as the middle name."
A break for at least a little while might be best.
It would give OP's parents time to decide what's important: getting their way on their grandson's name or being a part of their grandson's life.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp