Having awkward conversations about other people's kids is sometimes unavoidable.
The truth isn't always fun.
These situations can be especially difficult when the chatter is about a stepchild, with the observations coming from a stepparent.
Family is family.
But that also means the slings and arrows can sting more.
A deleted Redditor wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback. So naturally, she came to visit the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit.
She asked:
"AITA for telling my husband his daughter is embarrassing me?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"Yesterday I (30 F[emale]) was chilling at home with my M[other]-I[n]-L[aw], talking and drinking coffee."
"When my husband (37 M[ale]) arrived, he asked me if I would take his daughter (12 F) shopping for a dress."
"A little bit of context: when he was younger, my husband had a relationship with a woman, let's call her Sarah, and they had Mary as their daughter."
"He was having his rebel phase, going against his parents with this relationship, but it did not last."
"He realized they are way too different as individuals and broke up when Mary was 3."
"I met my husband 6 years ago, and we got married 4 years ago."
"Our relationship is amazing, and I get along extremely well with my I[n]-L[aws]."
"I was immediately accepted into the family, and my MIL treats and introduces me to people as her daughter."
"As you can imagine, this has caused a lot of drama with Sarah because she never received the same treatment from the family, but truthfully speaking, she is not someone you wish to have in your social circle."
"Mary and I get along well.'
"Everyone is on the same page that she has a mother and that I am not trying to replace her; I am just her father's wife."
"However, she spends most of her time with her mom, and Sarah is teaching her extreme hippie crap like she should not abide by the expectations society has on women."
"She should not feel pressured to act, look, or behave as what society considers acceptable and so on."
"Mary, therefore, is allowed by her mom to not shower for days in a row, wear dirty clothes, and not brush her teeth or hair."
"This has become her way of living because she refuses to shower or dress properly all the time."
"It pains me to say, but she could pass as a homeless child if you see her on the street due to her appearance."
"Back to yesterday, one month from now the entire family will attend a gala where my husband will receive an award."
"It's an important moment in his career, and he asked me if I would go with his daughter to buy a dress for the event."
"I told him honestly that I prefer not to."
"I explained that I really feel embarrassed being seen with Mary in public."
"She dresses horribly and most of the time her clothes are dirty, she stinks and does not brush her hair. "
"MIL agreed and mentioned to my husband that it would be best if Mary did not attend this event because she would make us look bad in front of all the people that would be present."
"I was on my MIL's side."
"Husband was sad but he also agreed with us and mentioned he would think about it."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed some options to the question AITA:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Many Redditors declared OP WAS the A**hole.
"YTA- you're focused on appearance/how others will see you, instead of the situation at hand."
"This child is being neglected in terms of personal hygiene."
"Bad teeth care will likely cause horrible problems down the line (e.g. cavities, losing teeth, etc.)."
"She is a little girl."
"She doesn't know better."
"She is just following the guidance of her mom."
"When you're a kid, you don't know better."
"You see embarrassment."
"I see neglect."
"Why is your husband not doing anything when she is in his care?"
"Why is your husband not petitioning the court to get more time with her?"
"Is it because you're too worried about appearance?"
"Maybe look in the mirror and see what you're missing, respectfully."
"This girl deserves better care; I hope y'all do something✨💜." ~ wxst3d
"MIL loves OP so much because both despise Mary's existence."
"OP for her not being a pretty little doll with plastic smooth skin, and MIL hates her because she's a constant reminder of when her precious son went against her wishes. YTA." ~ ASweetTweetRose
"I hate to break this to you but a lack of hygiene isn't a feminist position."
"Your comments about her needing to be clean because she is a young woman, are reinforcing her misconceptions of what feminism is."
"All people need to be hygienic, perhaps if you focus on that, rather than 'be clean because you are a girl' she will feel less rebellious."
"Your obvious sexism is just as unhelpful as her mother's crazy definition of feminism. YTA." ~ Homologous_Trend
"ESH. I get that lack of hygiene in a teenager is icky whatever the reason, but OP seems more concerned about herself and her dislike of Sarah than concerned about Mary."
"I'm getting power struggle vibes." ~ Mean_Breakfast_4081
"YTA. Because you and your husband just 'talk' about it."
"Go for full custody of the child."
"You don't just talk you do something about it." ~ momofklcg
"YTA since you are worried about looking bad instead of addressing the child abuse that is happening to the child." ~ tbeauli74
"YTA she's your husband's child."
"It's his fault if she's not presentable and you and MIL are despicable for talking that was about a child." ~ thenexttimebandit
"Instead of trying to disinvite this poor child from an important event, It could be explained to the child that the event has rules of dress and hygiene so it is up to them if they want to attend."
"But you would really like to have them there, and you'd be happy to take them to get a beautiful garment of their choosing and help them with the rest."
"But no, apparently the answer is to disinvite the child instead of actually being helpful."
"I also agree with the people saying that this seems like an unreliable narrator from the way she treats her partner like a helpless child who had a baby young when they were a full 25-year-old man. YTA." ~ BojackTrashMan
"YTA. It is absolutely wretched to be embarrassed of a 12-year-old child and even worse to tell her father you're embarrassed by her."
"Your comment about how you will be perceived taking a girl who is 'wearing baggy, ugly thrift store clothes' while you're carrying a 'designer bag' isn't what will make you seem like the 'evil stepmom' and she is seen as 'Cinderella.'"
"It's the fact that you are behaving like one that will do that."
"Nobody at the mall gives a flying f*ck about your designer bag or her baggy clothes."
"One of my dearest friends owns a high-end formal clothing store."
"One where you don't shop without an appointment and aren't walking out the door spending less than 4 figures on anything and are likely spending at least 5."
"Most of the girls her age who walk in have messy hair and are wearing sweats or leggings and oversized tees."
"And you somehow don't think you can take a 12-year-old to a mall without being humiliated?"
"It's a mall, for f*cks sake."
"It's not Henri Bendel or Oscar de la Renta." ~ Acrobatic_Hippo_9593
"'Help! A 12-year-old acts looks, and smells like a 12-year-old near me! What do I do!? What will the neighbors think??!!'"
"YTA." ~ Amazing-Quarter1084
"If you go through the comment - while OP's stepkid could do with upping up her hygiene, the opening post is grossly exaggerated."
"The kid seems to do well in school, going to dentists, etc. - what she occasionally does is wear a shirt two to three times a row which while not great is hardly making you look like you live in skid row."
"OP comes off as snobby and is clearly looking down on the kid's mom/the kid."
"'Classy ladies' (like you have called yourself, OP) don't need to look down on others."
"You are creating a problem where there isn't any and you are not classy. YTA." ~ Pellinaha
"She is 12 and this is neglect."
"You need to look after her."
"Why not wash her clothes when she is asleep?"
"Encourage her to shower and maybe treat her to a wash and blow dry at a salon."
"Make her feel special." ~ SurroundMiserable262
"YTA... terrible stepmother, terrible grandmother, and terrible father."
"She needs care, and you want to neglect her because you find her embarrassing."
"Teach her that personal hygiene is important and healthy." ~ ADroplet
"YTA. Everyone is being judgemental about a child."
"And now you're all excluding her because you're embarrassed."
"When this kid goes N[o] C[ontact] with her dad, it'll be your fault."
"And I can't believe her grandmother is in on it too." ~ SuspiciousZombie788
"YTA. From your comments, it sounds like she just doesn't fit your aesthetic." ~ ethereal_galaxias
OP came back with a big update...
"I wrote yesterday the initial post and it blew out of proportion."
"The number of comments was really overwhelming, but I sincerely thank you for your help and all the useful comments and messages you sent me."
"I will clarify some of the most commonly asked questions..."
"First of all, I apologize if I offended people by mentioning the hippie feminist part."
"I do not think that all feminists have poor hygiene, and I admit it was bad wording on my part."
"Being a feminist is what Mary's mother uses to describe herself and justify her parenting style."
"No, Mary is not a mixed race, and she and her mother are not of a different ethnicity."
"Some people found that showering for 2-3 days is not a problem."
"Mary spends every 2 weekends with my husband in our house and so during his time he picks her up on Friday and drops her off on Sunday."
"I noticed that during her time with us, those 2-3 days she refuses to shower but I have no idea what she is doing when she is with her mother."
"For those saying it is not that bad and I am overreacting, I am actually not."
"2-3 days going without a shower may not be a problem when you are an adult that spends the day working in an office and moving around in a car with AC."
"But for a 12-year-old who has a lot of activities, hormonal changes, and does not wear deodorant, trust me it is bad."
"As 12 years old Mary is not to blame for for lack of hygiene."
"I agree, her parents are to blame and I understand that my husband needs to step up or decide what he wants to do."
"Many people asked why I don't take Mary with me for a girl's day, spa, mani-pedi. "
"Her mother does not agree with it."
"She expressed multiple times that (in her opinion) the women in our family promote unhealthy women standards and she forbids her daughter ever engage in such activities."
"What was my stance and input in helping Mary?"
"As most of you probably realized, I don't have many options at hand."
"I have bought her a lot of natural, organic, vegan, and cruelty-free products."
"I have read and explained each label to her but she does not want to use them."
"I don't think Mary is being abused or neglected by her mother in a traditional way that C[hild] P[rotective] S[ervices] could be involved."
"She is not neglected, she is just given too much power to decide as a 12-year-old over her hygiene."
"Why I am so concerned for my image and reputation - because this is how I was raised and I refuse to have my reputation damaged in our social circle due to a kid that it's not even mine and due to the lack of involvement from her parents."
"My MIL is not influencing me at all, we just share the same opinions, values, and concerns."
"That being said, today I will sit my husband down and have a conversation with him."
"I will clearly inform him what my stance over this entire situation is and what I expect to happen."
"The rest is up to him to decide."
Reddit has taken issue with your choices.
However, your update explains a bit more.
It's time for your hubby to step up.
And maybe you could try and help shield Mary from any fallout.
Good luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp