It's nice to imagine families being loving, creating memorable moments together, and always being there for each other.
But the truth is, some family members only care about what they can get out of other people, cringed the users of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit, even their own brothers and sisters.
Redditor Weak_Fish_5074 had always felt distant from their family because of having different interests than the rest of the group, and when they grew up and became a lawyer, it did not escape them that they only heard from their family when they wanted legal advice.
When the family tried to shame the Original Poster (OP) for not "being there" for their sister during an ugly custody battle, they questioned when their family had ever been there for them.
They asked the sub:
"AITAH for not giving my relatives free legal advice as a lawyer because they've always treated me as the black sheep?"
The OP never had a good relationship with their family.
"My family is currently upset with me, and I don't think I'm in the wrong."
"I grew up in a s**tty town in Florida. No one in my family ever went to college. The general mindset in my family is to live life in the moment."
"Everyone's pretty outgoing. My parents are part of Mardi Gras crews, and my siblings all played sports. They're generally a fun bunch. But I never really fit in."
"As a kid, I liked to read, and I focused really hard on school. I hated going outside, and I especially hated the heat. I played chess and was on the debate team."
"My family all kind of gave me s**t for all of this. They never really made an effort to do things I enjoy, but my parents loved to go to my siblings' sports games. They wouldn't come to my debates. It was the same for all of my cousins and other extended family."
That relationship did not improve in the OP's adulthood, either.
"I tried when I was younger to have a relationship with them, but I gave up probably ten years ago. I just don't see the point anymore; the relationships just aren't there."
"As I got older, I focused on my education and my career."
"I've drifted apart from my family. They only call me when they want something at this point in my life."
"I'm now happily married, and I have my own practice as a family law attorney. My husband is a judge in the neighboring county."
"Over the last few years, I've had several extended relatives reach out to me for legal help or questions. I always brush them off and tell them I'm too busy. I don't feel obligated to help because, once again, they only reach out to me because they want something from me."
"I won't work for them for free, but I also don't like any of them enough to give them any sort of discount. Again, there's that lack of a relationship."
The OP continued to refuse to help, even when their sister was in a custody battle.
"Recently, though, my sister lost custody of her kids to her ex-husband. Apparently, her lawyer was not so great, so now she only has every other weekend. My sister has a messy past that ended up in court."
"My older sister called me, begging me to represent her for free and help her get her kids back."
"I was honest with her. I don't even know her kids, and I don't really care if she has them or not. I pointed out that she hasn't called me in years, and yet now she's asking me to do her a massive favor, for free."
"I told her no."
The OP's mother tried to shame them for not sharing their legal services.
"My mother called me to shame me for not helping my sister and for not helping any of my other relatives when they've asked."
"I asked her when was the last time any of them called me just to see how I was doing."
"I pointed out that my cousin is a landscaper. He could've offered to do yard work for me in exchange for legal services, but instead, he just called me up asking for free help. My sister could've offered something, or at least asked to pay me back later, but instead, she expects free work. Which isn't even free, seeing as I have an office to pay for, paralegals to pay, and bills to pay."
"I kind of went off on her, and she ended up just hanging up the phone on me."
"AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some reassured the OP that they were not wrong to withhold their services.
"Your family only calls you when they need a lawyer, but they expect you to be their free legal superhero? Sounds like they're trying to draft you into the 'Family Law League' without any membership dues!" - dreamybabygirl2
"Wow, they don't want to be there for you, not even a simple phone call or cup of coffee from time to time, and yet they expect you to swoop in whenever they need legal help?!"
"No way. It's all one-sided. Setting boundaries is essential, especially when they don't even try to keep in touch unless they need something. Keep your peace, and don't let them in." - JamesMorgaan
"NTA. They're using the excuse of being 'family' to make such unreasonable demands, yet as family, they're not even considering OP's feelings." - Elena-Lannon
"NTA. You're a lawyer, not a charity. Your family has shown you no support and only reaches out when they need something. It's perfectly reasonable to set boundaries and expect to be compensated for your time and expertise." - tastefulxxpassion
"I would say, 'I don't mind representing family, but y'all aren't family to me, so f**k off.'"
"Why do these people count as 'family' to OP? I have an amazing and large extended family. They love me, they like to spend time with me, they have helped me at times. So yeah, they are family and I will help them."
"These people sound like spammers who have your phone number. Not even nice to you. Total waste of OP's time." - madmaxterminator
Others who identified with the OP's predicament encouraged them to hold their boundaries.
"Every time my phone rings and it's a family member, I brace myself for a legal emergency. At this point, I should start charging them in cookies and hugs instead of billable hours!" - spagettipastakillers
"When I practiced law, I was in a very niche federal regulatory practice, which permitted me to dodge most family requests for legal advice. I would tell them that they needed an expert in the appropriate field."
"However, I had a cousin whose son was being bullied at school and the school administration and teachers were failing the child. Based on days of research, I outlined a strategy for my cousin to follow and also referred her to specific attorneys."
"She didn't want to do any of the work required because she just wanted me to 'handle it.' I wasn't licensed to practice in her state, but she blamed me."
"Never again. NTA." - Excellent_Level1867
"NTA. Sadly, it is very common for family members to feel entitled to what you do or can do for them. My family is similar and I empathize with you."
"Do not cave. These people, while family, are emotional leeches. Do not negotiate with them and do not cave." - xanthanos
"NTA. Coming from a similar situation, I'll give you the advice I had to give myself."
"You're not the family pro bono hotline, especially for people who've only shown up when they want something. Your time, expertise, and effort have value, and you're not obligated to give them away to relatives who haven't been there for you." - Red-Lips-
"I've been there. Debate team, speech club, math club, chess. My family went to my sister's track meets instead of my debates."
"Fast forward, I became a CPA, and now they wanted free tax returns. I discounted the rate 40%. Some took me up on it while others didn't. I actually built back a relationship with those who decided my services were worth the discounted rate."
"You might try that approach. Say, 'My work and my efforts to develop my skills have value. I won't do the work for free.' Good luck to you. NTA." - EmploymentIII2944
"NTA. You should have told them that you went into corporate tax law or environmental air pollution law (I don't even think that one is real, but they'll never know). That way, you can say sorry, not my field of expertise."
"When I was in the military, I used to tell people I was a medical person. When I became a civilian, I became a nurse. By then, I just told them that was why they had their own providers and to leave me alone."
"So... yeah, my family leaves me alone when it comes to anything. They aren't always happy about that, but it's a boundary that has to be set." - YeahIGotNuthin
A few also pointed out that it was important for the OP to stay out of it for legal reasons.
"NTA, as an attorney, I don't represent family members as a rule. (There are many solid ethical reasons not to represent family members and it makes life easier generally.)"
"The only thing I would do differently is to not have given a reason other than, 'I don't represent family members.' You probably needed to say something after years of being excluded, and I can understand that, so no, NTA."
"And: seriously, consider making it a personal policy not to represent family members because it's completely okay to close that door." - Such_Guide2828
"NTA. I'd keep it at, 'I don't represent family members,' and give them some referrals. Then be done with it." - Pascale73
"I feel family members are very likely to violate the 'don't lie to your own lawyer' mantra because it'll make them look bad in front of a relative."
"Same for when a family member is your doctor or accountant."
"Hence, I feel people just shouldn't bother with it. I'd feel far more at peace paying a professional who can't cause any family drama."
"Because nothing is ever truly free. NTA." - LiteratureNearby
"Why even get into a discussion in the whys and wherefores? Just tell them that you are not permitted to do that by the firm you work for, and it is outside your area of specialty anyway."
"Point them in the direction of someone who specializes in that area that you think is capable and that is all you need to do. NTA." - Cricket_mum24
"Many lawyers have a policy of NOT ever giving legal advice to relatives whether they are paid or not. It is too easy for the 'family member client' to dislike the result and be a time draw way in excess of what a non-relative would require."
"And the legal issues may not be among those you would accept a paying client for. It's just like doctors not treating relatives. Have a standard referral suggestion to requests like a legal aid clinic or a bar association referral service."
"NTA." - SuPruLu
"NTA. Just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean you owe your services for free, especially when they're treating you like an emergency contact rather than a family member. Stick to your boundaries; they're important for your mental peace!" - WinnieWhimsy
While it's easy to empathize with how ugly and troubling going through a custody battle must be, the family could easily round up funds together to pay for a lawyer rather than expecting the OP to do it for free.
If they weren't ever going to be there for the OP, just to be there for them, they shouldn't expect the OP to drop everything and provide legal services that they spent years earning certifications for.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp