One thing rarely addressed in discussions on mental health in the United States is the requirement for a cooperative patient.
Getting therapy is a frequent suggestion, but most people can't be forced to get treatment or to take medication. Unless a person is an active threat to themselves or others, they can't be hospitalized and medicated.
There's a reason why so much of the homeless population in the USA are mentally ill. The closing of mental hospitals and group homes was called healthcare reform, but longterm care for those unable to care for themselves—temporarily or permanently—just didn't fit the for profit healthcare model created in the 1980s.
A husband whose wife refuses care turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no required voting acronyms—only suggested ones—and no official final judgment declared.
Penny792 asked:
"ATIAH for leaving my struggling wife?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My wife (32, female) and I (38, male) had our daughter two years ago. We've been together for 10 years and wanted our life together before kids."
"The pregnancy was complicated, and when she went into labor two months early, everything happened so fast I could barely process it. She had to have an emergency C-section, and for a few terrifying hours, I thought I might lose both of them."
"After a few weeks in the hospital, both my wife and our baby were finally stable enough to come home. Our daughter was small, but strong, and I thought once we were home, things would slowly start to feel normal again. I was wrong."
"About two months later, my wife told me she didn't feel connected to our daughter that she didn't feel love for her. I didn't know what to say."
"I just hugged her and told her it was okay, that it might just take time and that we'd figure it out. I helped her get into therapy and tried not to pressure her to bond with our baby because I didn't want her to feel worse."
"Months went by. I took unpaid leave from work to take care of the baby and tried to keep everything together. I did the feedings, the diapers, the appointments everything."
"My wife barely left our bedroom. She went to therapy and talked to her doctor, but there wasn't much improvement."
"My wife's mother told me she'd 'snap out of it' after a while and she just needed time. So I just kept telling myself it was postpartum depression (PPD) and that she'd get better eventually."
"When our daughter turned one, I threw her a little birthday party. I decorated, invited both sides of the family, and tried to make it special. Everyone had a good time my daughter was laughing, it felt like things were okay."
"My wife stayed upstairs the whole time. I brought her a plate of food and asked if she wanted to come down just to sing happy birthday. She told me, 'She won't remember it anyway'. I just nodded and left her alone."
"The next year my wife stopped answering her therapists calls, stopped talking to me, and stopped leaving our room completely, no matter how much I tried to talk and get her help."
"When it was our daughter's 2nd birthday, I planned the entire party by myself, hoping she might finally come out and join us. She didn't. She hadn't held our daughter in months. She barely spoke to her."
"I finally snapped that day. I went upstairs and told her how unfair it was, that our daughter didn't deserve to be ignored or treated like she didn't exist. My wife just stared at the wall and didn't say anything. I stood there for a bit, then walked out."
"After that, something in me just broke. I realized I couldn't keep doing it. It wasn't fair to my daughter or to me. I'd done everything I could, therapy, patience, support, but nothing changed."
"A few weeks later, I packed up and left. I took our daughter with me, I went to my mother's and I have been staying with her."
"Now my wife's family is furious. They've tried to take my daughter, they've been calling me an insensitive piece of sh*t, saying I abandoned her when she was struggling, that I should've stayed and been more understanding. But I was understanding. For 2 years. I supported her through everything, even when it meant putting my own life on hold."
"AITAH?"
The OP later added:
"I didn't realise I'd left so much unsaid. When my wife was constantly in our room, I was the one looking after our daughter."
"My wife and I had stable careers before deciding to have her, and we were living comfortably with good savings. When I couldn't work for almost two years, I was on unpaid leave and eventually lost my job. My wife wasn't working either, which cost her hers too."
"I was covering all the bills, appointments, insurance, food basically living off our savings."
"My wife tried medication like SSRIs, but she never stayed on them long enough for them to help. The doctor said it could take up to six weeks to feel the full effect, but she never lasted more than a month."
"I'd drive her to her appointments (that I scheduled) and have my mom look after our daughter while we were gone."
"I've seen multiple comments asking if I tried to get my wife to 'bond' with my daughter, I take full accountability that I did not. I was so scared it would just build my wife's resentment of her, I now understand that might've fixed some things or helped, but in the moment all I could think about was all the negative things my wife had said."
"However I did not in any way deny my wife holding her or seeing her at all. My wife never wanted to, but I know if she wanted to I would've been more than willing to let her."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not wrong to put his child's needs first (NTA).
"NTA. You wife needs serious help. Possibly inpatient mental health services. But, your top priority has to be your daughter."
"If her parents keep harassing you, tell them 'I have to take care of my daughter. I need you to step up and take care of yours, because I can't take care of both of them at the same time'." ~ kam49ers4ever
"You absolutely did the right thing getting your daughter out of that environment. It's a very dangerous situation for her." ~ Kimmietoo2
"I shouldn't armchair diagnose, but this sounds like a very, very severe case of PPD at the very least. If not some form of PTSD from going through what she went through. 2 years is way too long to be bedridden." ~ b3mark
"It's possible she's having postpartum psychosis, rather than depression. Psychosis can present as 'negative symptoms' like flat affect, withdrawal, anhedonia, reduced speech." ~ paliwannacracker
"NTA. You have to prioritise your children. Even when they're adults."
"Which leads me to the question, where the f*ck were her parents while she was virtually catatonic for two years?" ~ Kind_Ad7899
"Everyone including her folks and doctor left him holding the bag. The folks only spoke up when he had the nerve to leave. He's not the a**hole. But he needs help, for himself the wife and the baby." ~ Southern_Bus4965
"Your wife needs to go to an in-patient treatment facility. I'm not sure where you are, I'm in Canada, and we have treatment centres for mental health whether it be addiction, depression or any other mental health issue."
"There she will take part in programs and classes and they will get her on the right medication if she needs it and she'll get the help she needs. I hope they offer these services where you are. You should really look into them or let her family know to look into them."
"You've done nothing wrong. You've been holding it together by yourself and there's only so much one person can do. Your wife needs a team of people." ~ No-Night-6700
"Your wife needs hospitalization. This is too deep for 'she snaps out of it' and therapy. You have to take care of your daughter, and your wife needs professional help in a psychiatric hospital and medication." ~ Anastriannnna
"So this sounds like when PPD gets so far into psychosis it requires hospitalization. Most people think PPD is short lived and everyone bounces back. I have met and worked with parents that 5 years later are still dealing with severe PPD and psychosis."
"She needed inpatient help probably more than a year and a half ago. Really when she broke down to you. Most people don't know that."
"The only a**hole here is the mother-in-law who told you she would just figure it out. That was the most damning of advice she could have given."
"Go after mom for child support. Courts may push her to do inpatient before she can have visitation or she may sign over her rights." ~ autisticNerd13
"NAH. I believe you did what was best for you and your daughter. She is your number one priority. She is young now but soon she will be old enough to understand that mom is here but not being mom to me. And that will affect your child. So removing her from the situation was best for now."
"But your wife still needs help. Tell her family to stop pointing fingers and help her. Help you to help her. They can help by getting her into inpatient care or something because outpatient wasn't working."
"She may not want to do it, but she has to if she ever wants to get her life back—with or without you and your daughter. And she may be angry at all of you for taking her there, but you and her family are not equipped to care for someone who refuses to leave their room."
"I'm sorry you are going through this. Good luck." ~ Frequent_Couple5498
The OP is in a difficult situation, having to choose between his wife and his child. Depending on where he lives, forcing his wife to get help may not be an option.
Hopefully her family's concern shifts from attacking the person who took care of her for two years while they did nothing to getting her the help she needs.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp