In this day and age, parents are not obligated to pay for their children's weddings.
A lot of parents can't afford it.
Weddings are expensive.
In order to secure the funding, some parents who shell out the cash have caveats about the event.
This can make for a difficult situation.
Redditor Wonderful_Mode_9646 wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so naturally, they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"AITA for not paying for my daughter's wedding because she isn't following the rules even though I paid for my older kids?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"My wife and I have always told all of our kids that we will be willing to pay for their wedding if they follow a few rules."
"The entire family has to be invited (exceptions if something major happened)."
"The wedding can not be a destination wedding (if all your guests need to get on a plane, basically, and leave the country)."
"Immediate family gets a plus one even if they are not dating someone."
"Overall, the rules are not that hard to follow in my opinion."
'My daughter (31 F[emale]) is marrying Cindy (34 F), and they have picked out a venue and are working on the guest list."
"They both know the rules if they want me to pay."
"My daughter informed me yesterday that the wedding will be child-free."
"I told her that goes against one of the rules of me paying. "
'That all family must be invited (yes, that includes the kids)."
"We had a sit-down conversation where she tried to convince me to still pay even if it was child-free."
"She wants it to be child free becuase she wants it to be an elegant event, and her Cindy doesn't like kids that much because she experienced parentification as a kid."
"I told her I would think about it, and my decision was no."
"I informed both of them, and in short, they are quite mad."
"I made it clear that they can do that type of wedding if they want, but I just won't be paying for it."
"My daughter is pissed and saying it is unfair because her siblings got a free wedding."
"I pointed out that they followed my rules on this."
"Everyone is pissed basically."
The OP added some details.
"Another question: why don't Cindy's parents pay for it- they are the type of parents who don't give money for a wedding (yes, they will be there)."
"Big on if you are old enough to get married, then you should pay for it, people."
"Since I am seeing this a lot, Cindy has been to many events with kids."
"She even babysat before."
"She personally doesn't want children, but has been fine around kids before."
"Did other kids have issues with the rules?"
"Only my middle son/D[augter]-I[n]-L[aw]."
"They wanted an Italian wedding but decided against it after I informed them I wouldn't pay."
"They can still do a child-free wedding if they want, just means they won't get 50k-100k from me."
"They will need to pay for it themselves."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So... AITA?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"I don't think you are THE a**hole in this situation."
"But I do think you sound like AN a**hole." ~ batmanpjpants
"It isn't a gift to the children."
"Its an invitation to make their wedding an official family event, therefore qualifying for family funding."
"It's not like the option to take the $, follow the rules, come in under budget, and keep the remainder was ever on the table."
"Being willing to pay for a family celebration everyone can come to, but not a private party for one family member, is not inconsistent or unreasonable."
"Most people would never spend 100k on a wedding, maybe some people would on an inclusive family event, but little else." ~ ItchyDoggg
"I love how you phrased this!"
"He's willing to pay for the wedding as long as it's an actual family event."
"Once large portions of the family start getting excluded, it's not a family event anymore, and he's not willing to pay."
"He's not dictating anything but some additions to the invite list and general geographic locations." ~ SnailandPepper
"I don't know how many of you guys realize that excluding children from weddings also often excludes their mothers."
"Not everyone has reliable access to childcare, especially at a wedding where all the family is already invited."
"NTA, most of us paid for our own weddings and are fine, it's nice of you to pay any at all." ~ SnailandPepper
"I am a mother who has missed child-free weddings before for this reason, and I have always been disappointed I missed out."
"It's not a nice feeling, however, if someone needs to be disappointed/unhappy, it shouldn't be the brides!"
"I would rather not go than bring my children somewhere they aren't welcome, and worse, unknowingly upset the couple on their happy day." ~ underthe_raydar
"Clear NTA, she knew the rules going in."
"She has to decide what's more important to her, a dream wedding or a paid-for wedding, because she can't have both."
"It's possible her siblings also made compromises they didn't want to make in order to have their weddings paid for, so it would be unfair to twist the rules for the last sibling."
"Take the a**hole votes you'll get with a grain of salt, Reddit hates kids." ~ ZooAnimalOnWheels
"NTA. Kids are not entitled to their parents to pay for their wedding."
"If you have conditions, then you have conditions (you are the one dropping 50k or more)."
"These aren't crazy either."
"If they don't want to follow them, then they can pay for their own wedding." ~ SoccerProblem3547
"This. Children are not entitled to weddings paid for by their parents!!"
"It is unbelievably kind for a parent to do, but if the parents are paying, then DUH, they get some say in how it goes."
"I didn't understand til I got married how important that day was for my parents, too - how much it meant to them to celebrate this happiness."
"And that made it MORE special to me, not less."
"And these three rules are just not that big a deal!!" ~ OutrageousBrush1210
"You're allowed to have whatever rules you want, but don't be surprised if your daughter goes low contact after this, or even if you don't get a wedding invitation."
"It's such a weird hill to die on."
"Don't you want your daughter to have the wedding she wants?"
"Don't you want to welcome your future daughter-in-law?"
"I guess you need to decide which is more important to you: having children at the wedding or supporting your own child."
"She's asking for something reasonable, so while you are perfectly allowed to decline to pay, there's no way it won't cause a rift." ~ GoldInTheSummertime
"NTA. My money, my rules."
"Heck, in my thirties, we paid for our own wedding because we then got to make up all the rules."
"Parents who pay for weddings often come with strings like not that dress, yes this pastor, and these are my extra business guests you don't know."
"Your daughter and her fiancé are in their 30s."
"They can pay for their own wedding and have it exactly the way they want." ~ tanookiisasquirrel
"NTA. If your other children have all abided by these rules and had children at their weddings, then your daughter should have to follow them too."
"I'd say if you wanted to, you could give her a smaller monetary contribution to the child-free wedding rather than paying for the whole thing."
"Like, instead of paying for a 40k wedding, you could give her 10k as a 'gift' that she can either put towards the wedding or her honeymoon or whatever she wants." ~ O4243G
"NTA. You set rules for your willingness to pay for a wedding, and you're applying them equally."
"Your daughter can take your offer or leave it and pay for her own wedding without your restrictions."
"Would you be willing to set up a children's area as a compromise?"
"Hire a sitter or two for the younger kids and set up a separate area with toys, games, and a place for the young ones to rest."
"That will be more fun for the kids and allow for a mostly child-free vibe at the reception and ceremony." ~ Any_Yogurtcloset7865
"NTA. You have been very clear for what I assume to be years that if they want to use your money for an expensive social event, then they have to follow some pretty simple, basic rules."
"The rules you have put forth are not about control; they are about community. In no way are you dictating where the venue is, other than it being a non-destination."
"You are not dictating dress, color, food, or who your daughter marries."
"You are simply saying if you want to use my money, then you have to include family, and kids are family members."
"There is no law stating you must pay anything for children after they turn 18."
"You are offering a kindness with simple expectations."
"If they don't want kids, then they can pay."
"Lots of entitlement coming from the daughter and fiancée." ~ Treadingresin
"NTA, no one is entitled to a paid wedding."
"She's 31 years old, her wife is 34, if they dont like your rules, they need to put their big pants on and do it themselves."
"Think of your daughter and how she feels? No."
"Think of your other kids and their spouses, who abide by your rules, and how they feel if you made an exception?"
"My dad held all his kids to the same standards."
"It's our choice to live with it or not." ~ Salty-Contact4371
Reddit is with you, OP.
It's your money, you get to spend it how you see fit.
Maybe you and your daughter can have a calmer, more productive chat.
It is her day.
Hopefully, you can all make it as beautiful as possible.
No matter who pays for it.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp