If there's one challenge everyone faces when in a relationship, it's how well you do, or don't, get along with your partner's parents.
Those who are lucky get along swimmingly with their partner's parents, finding them to be the family they never had, but always wanted.
Others are less lucky, finding the less time they spend around their partner's families the better.
While most people keep their less-than-cordial feelings about their in-laws private, others have no trouble sharing their unfiltered opinions.
Sometimes even to their in-law's faces.
Redditor Nonfrench_Fries3621 was a bit dismayed by some comments his girlfriend was making about his younger sister, with whom he had an incredibly close bond.
Things came to something of a head, however, when the original poster (OP)'s girlfriend made these comments directly to his sister's face, at a family dinner no less.
Leading the OP to share some choice words with his girlfriend, who had some choice words of her own to share back.
Wondering if he was out of line, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where he asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA telling girlfriend that she gave me the 'ick' at a family dinner?"
The OP explained why his girlfriend left him a little steamed after a recent family dinner:
"I'm 32 M[ale] dating my girlfriend Jenny 27 F[emale] for almost a year now, and we've met each other's families."
"Jenny is an only child of an asian family while I'm half/half with one younger sister, Anna 21 F."
"Anna and I are close despite our age gap, our parents both worked demanding jobs and I would babysit/chaperone for many of her bratty teen years."
"In recent months I've noticed that whenever Anna comes up in conversation, Jenny would joke about how Anna is overly spoiled by my parents and I and how we've created a princess."
"Last week at a family dinner with my parents I felt like Jenny was overly grilling Anna on school/dating/life."
"At one point, Anna was telling a story about how a first date gave her 'the ick' by not pull out his wallet after their meal and let her foot the full meal."
"Jenny laughed and said that not every man will treat her to dinner like her brother would and that 'you need to lower your standards'."
"I was not happy with this comment as it sounded like my sister didn't deserve to be treated with basic respect but also didn't want to embarrass Jenny."
"Jennifer then went on talk about how that would've never happen to her as men see her as 'high value'."
"I don't know what about this comment that just pissed me off but I said that she was giving ME 'the ick' and to stop talking to my sister like that."
"The argument we had when we got home was massive, and Jenny told me that I was overreacting to an innocuous comment and would make a terrible father because I would always favor my sister over everyone else."
"I'm shocked at called a 'terrible father' and honestly still don't think I was wrong, but need another opinion."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH – No A**holes Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for telling Jenny she gave him "the ick".
Everyone agreed that Jenny was way out of line by speaking to Anna in the way she did. Many found her behavior so self-centered that they urged the OP to seriously consider whether staying in this relationship was a good idea.
"Any girl that refers to herself as 'high value' in a conversation is an ick."
"Doing it while letting your younger sibling know it's because they aren't 'high value' is just cruel."
"And by the way - no one of real class or substance would ever think that."
"She's about as valuable as the gum on the bottom of a shoe!"
"Look at the people you truly admire in life."
"They don't usually go around telling others they're winner and that other people aren't."
"They're worth admiring for their actions and words."
"She doesn't appear to have done anything that makes her someone of value."
"NTA."- Major_Barnacle_2212
"NTA."
"She's a walking red flag."
"'Jennifer then went on talk about how that would've never happen to her as men see her as 'high value'."
"What is this comment?"
"Ewwwwwww."
"Her behavior with your sister is sooo uncalled for, please run, this is not someone who you should settle down with."- Cultural-End-7074
"NTA."
"If I heard my bf talking about being an alpha high-value man, I would run."
"She disrespected your sister in front of you and double downed."
"Then blamed and lashed out at you for her mistake."
"I know people like this, they are users through and through."
"Yes everyone has preferences, sure."
"It's the insulting your family, doubling down, and when you tried to talk to her about it she blamed it on you."
"Is this the first time you noticed this behavior?"- Interesting_Help_481
"NTA."
"Its like she's trying to compete with your sister."
"I'd have already gotten rid of her."- Chastity-Plants
"NTA."
"Yuck."
"Tell her to get out of here with that Female Dating Strategy garbage."- SoMuchMoreEagle
"NTA."
"Red Flag!"
"This girl has serious issues."
"What she said to your sister was uncalled for."
"This is NOT the girl for you."- Global-Fact7752
"NTA."
"Women who call themselves high value usually are more high maintenance than high value."
"That gives me the ick too."- DRTvL
"NTA."
"Jenny sure is, though."
"She was really being full of herself and talking down to your sister."
"I don't know where she gets that 'out of left field' comment about you being a bad father."
"She barely knows you."
"A year is nothing in the scheme of things."
"However, we do see 'things' in the first year of dating that give us the 'Ick' and turn us off of someone we thought was interesting at first."
"This may be the case with Jenny."
"She just let her mask down."- SubjectBuilder3793
"NTA."
"It sounds like Jennifer is jealous of Anna and refuses to treat her with respect."
"Good for you standing up for her."- OkReward2182
"I wouldn't date anyone who treated my siblings badly."
"One reason I married my husband is because he treated my younger siblings like his own from day one."
"He would move heaven and earth for them (and has multiple times) just as I would."
"They're loved immensely."
"NTA."- NotOneOfUrLilFriends
"NTA."
"32f and I just don't understand this 'high value' woman train of thought."
"I find it so disrespectful to other women."
"Is she so insecure that she has to bully someone younger than her for doing something we all know she does too!"
"I seriously hope we get an update that OP left her a**!"
"The gf sounds like she's going to make a terrible mother."
"If she's shaming OP's sister, I hate to think of what she'd do to her own daughter."- Sad-Expression7697
"She has some kind of problem with your sister, almost seems like jealousy."
"That's not normal and she is the AH."- Klutzy-Performance97
"NTA."
"Your gf is competing with your sister because she's jealous of the bond you have with her."
"This is a huge red flag because she will do what she can to tarnish your sister's image in your eyes, beat your sister down or worse is attempt to disrupt your bond (if not fully cut her from your life)."
"You need to nip this in the bud now or break up (unless you choose your gf over your sister)."-Lollipopwalrus
"NTA."
"A 'high value' woman would NEVER disrespect another woman."
"She craves attention, and the only way she can get it is to bring another person down."
"She gave me the ick too."- YourOnlyGodes
"NTA."
"She is making herself good by lowering other people, including you."
"Do you really need it?"- Trespassingw
"NTA."
"WHOA!"
"RUN FOREST! RUN!"- Intelligent-Wolf-529
"As soon as people start using the whole high value talk you know they're on the incel or femcel blogs."
'Big red flag and NTA."- arm-n-hammerinmycoke
"NTA."
"She called your sister low value."
"She's a nope."- saintandvillian
"NTA."
"Good for you for calling her out on her pink pill bullsh*t."- 10qwertyuiop10
"NTA."
"Your sister needs to lower her standards for dates, she's too 'low value' to expect better behavior?"
"Your GF considers herself 'high value' and wouldn't be treated like that?"
"'Ick' is appropriate, and I don't know how you expressed your concerns about that, but those concerns are certainly not over-reacting."
"If GF can't get her head around how ugly those sentiments are then she should have no need to contemplate what kind of father you'd make."- CatteNappe
From what the OP has said, Jenny seems to need to be the center of attention and isn't happy when that isn't the case.
Hence, she has no trouble calling Anna spoiled yet also has no trouble saying she is "high value" in the dating scene.
It will be in Jenny's best interest to try to get on the good side of the OP's family, specifically Anna.
As should an ultimatum arise that the OP must choose between Jenny or Anna, it seems pretty obvious what his decision will be...
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp