Some families naturally tell more crude and inappropriate jokes than others, and those jokes run through the entire family.
It would be thoughtful for them to consider the feelings of family members who marry into the family, but that rarely happens, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
The Redditor, who has since deleted her account, knew that her husband's family was full of crude jokesters, and usually, the jokes didn't bother her that much.
But when a joke was directed at her and her personal hygiene, the Original Poster (OP) felt uncomfortable, and that was only worsened when her husband shamed her for being too sensitive.
She asked the sub:
"AIO Over MIL's comment that I won't have to worry about "washing my vagina" after being told husband and I aren't coming over?"
The OP was aware that her husband's family liked to joke around a lot.
"For background, my husband and his family all like to use crude humor where one person is the butt of the joke."
"This typically doesn't bother me that much."
"Overall, my relationship with them is good."
But then the OP's mother-in-law (MIL) seriously crossed the line.
"My MIL called my husband to ask us about our plans for the day. He had mentioned earlier in the week that we might stop over, but she brought up that they were thinking about going to their favorite bar."
"My husband said that was fine and that we would stay home."
"Then he (jokingly) said that I would be happy to stay home because I 'don't like them.' I don't know why he would say that, but this is how they all are."
"We spend a lot more time with his family than we do with mine. I mentioned to him prior that I did not want to stay there until midnight like we did last weekend, NOT that I didn't want to go AT ALL."
"She responded by saying, 'Ah, okay, yeah, she will probably enjoy not having to go anywhere or worry about washing her vagina.'"
The OP was shocked by the joke, and it was only made worse by her husband's reactions.
"I don't really get the joke myself, outside of it being really crude, but I think she meant that people don't feel the need to shower or get ready if they aren't going somewhere? Right?"
"Anyway, my husband did not bat an eye at this. They talked for a while longer and eventually hung up."
"I asked my husband, 'Am I just supposed to act like that was normal?'"
"He didn't even know what I was talking about, so I said that comment was really weird."
"He told me I was acting like a child for taking offense, defended her, and said he 'isn't going to deal with this much sensitivity from me for the rest of his life.'"
"Clearly, I'm not overreacting? Right?"
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overreacting
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some agreed with the OP's confusion and were thoroughly weirded out by the joke.
"I read the title and said, 'What the actual f**k?' The full story did not help. NOR. Seriously. What the actual f**k?!" - Born-Bid8892
"Making a casual joke with your adult son about his wife washing her vagina is probably the creepiest thing I've heard in a while."
"And I say this as a momma's boy, I still have the level of self-awareness that it is not appropriate to talk to mommy dearest about your wife's genitals. It is definitely crossing a line." - Snoo_705311
"I mean... how much time does MIL spend thinking about the overall cleanliness of OP's vagina?"
"Did OP's husband make some kind of joke in the past about something in their sex life, and now mom feels like she has the green light to joke about it?" - fakeVivisectionist
"Ask him to explain the joke. If it makes him uncomfortable, it means the joke went too far."
"Do that with your in-laws, too. If you keep asking them to explain their jokes about you, eventually they will realize it isn't fun to make crude jokes about you."
"Just imagine some of the responses... 'Yeah, my mom was basically just jokin' around that your c**chie stinks, sweetie, and that you're too lazy to clean it. Ha ha!! But don't worry! She was only kidding!! Relax!'" - PlusLandscape7703
"Let it be awkward that no one knows how vagina's work, and why wouldn't it be more of a 'joke' to wash up for home time with the husband vs. visiting with the in-laws? Not that any of that would be normal, either, I'm just very interested in unpacking the humor. Really make them squirm in the logic of it all." - Frequent_Class3191
"What does this mean? What does she mean by that?"
"I don't even think the husband laughed at the joke? He acted like that was a normal thing to say. Why? Was it even a joke or just a weird inside joke that became regular family vernacular?"
"Is this something the mom says often? Where did it even come from? WHY IS IT OKAY?"
"There are more questions I have than answers. Honestly, I'm more curious about what this means than I am about any sort of reactions." - caturday_saturday
"I'd be more reacting to the chain-of-events comment about him not 'dealing with this the rest of his life.' One shouldn't make light of divorce with their partner. Ever." - Gunfurr
Others pulled an UNO-Reverse on the husband's comment and questioned if this was the kind of family the OP wanted to be a part of for the rest of her life.
"I still don't get it. Like, what an odd, unfunny joke. What a weird family OP married into." - ReadingSad3228
"They're like a bunch of cavemen... That was my thought about the husband, anyway, like, how very caveman of him and his mom."
"I do NOT see the appeal of crude comments or behavior. In fact, I'll probably just walk away, thinking, 'NOPE,' let alone marry (or stay married) into it." - Candid_Jellyfish_240
"I've met families like this. They have warped senses of humor, and it's so normal to them, they don't get it when someone else is scratching their head over how they're interacting. It probably won't change, seeing as they all participate and think it's normal."
"How long have you been married? Is this a new dynamic, or have they always had a twisted sense of humor (I use 'humor' for lack of a better word)? Do you usually let these things go, or is this the first time they've done this?"
"You'll probably have to ask them to keep you out of their 'jokes.' Hopefully, your husband will understand your wants and stick up for you. If not, you have to think about other ways to deal with this or whether you even want to." - Fantastic-Surprise34
"Do YOU want to deal with this for the rest of your life? NOR, because that is weird as s**t." - DeinoTrainer96
"Your husband and his whole family sound ridiculous. These comments are only funny if you have the emotional intelligence of a 13-year-old, immature-for-his-age, boy." - KathIsMyPal
"Well, trying to find a silver lining here, at least you know if she visits your house, she HAS washed her vagina."
"Maybe next time you see her outside her house, you can announce, 'Ah, it's lovely to see you on a vagina washing day!'"
"And if anyone looks at you funny, you can then explain that she's told your husband that she only washes her vag when she's leaving the house."
"If they can only dish it and can't take it, I'd be questioning my relationship with the lot of them." - loopelly89
"Very immature type family dynamic there. It's normal for them, but it isn't really nice or normal for most people."
"Obviously and all due respect (however little is due), crude humor has its place. And that place is typically around people who you know will appreciate it and join in."
"I feel like the type of people who can't understand that are always the same ones saying that comedy is dead and you can't say anything anymore."
"Even if they're going to make jokes, the family should at least respect the OP enough to apologize if they cross one of her boundaries. But based on the husband's reaction, I doubt they care about her for more than a butt of one of their jokes at all." - Neveronlyadream
The subReddit was just as lost, grossed out, and uncomfortable as the OP was about this joke, and even if it only meant that she didn't need to get herself ready for company, there were far kinder ways of saying that than the joke that her mother-in-law made.
Not to mention, between her husband's gruff reaction to her confusion and his comment about not wanting to put up with her forever, the OP might really want to think about her place in this family and whether it was a place that she actually wanted to hold on to.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp