Parents who shirk their obligations to their kids often aren't viewed kindly.
This can become a very serious bone of contention for exes.
Collecting this type of money can make people crazy.
Redditor u/redrobinyummmmmmmmm wanted to discuss her experience and get some feedback, so naturally, she came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
She asked:
"AITA for not forgiving $11k in child support?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"So I (41 F[emale]) have 2 kids (18 M[ale] and 21 F) with K (52 M)."
"We are on friendly terms, but K has never been a part of their lives and has lived in another state."
"No visits, no phone calls, no presents, no birthday cards, nothing."
"He worked under the table for 10 years and didn’t pay child support."
"I didn’t go after him at that time because I knew it was pointless."
"Well, he got a decent job, and I took him to court."
"Last year, he got in a bad motorcycle accident and hasn’t been cleared to work yet."
"He has a brain injury from the accident."
"He got a warrant out because of child support, and he’s asking me to forgive it so they’ll drop the warrant."
"I don’t want to."
"I feel it’s owed to me for raising 2 kids completely alone."
"This has now become a big debate with friends and family, so I’m coming here to try to see what the majority is."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So Reddit, AITA for not forgiving his $11k in child support?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question, AITA:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - More Information Needed
Many Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"Don’t forgive it."
"He knew he was a deadbeat from the get-go."
"Now he is trying to get the sympathy vote."
"Too bad, dude."
"Should have fulfilled your obligations at the time." ~ Ok-Nothing6599
"He also knew he had this debt when he went and bought a donorcycle."
"Now he’s whining about it. Boohoo, pay up. OP was nice enough to let it go for this long."
"Consequences, consequences…" ~ picklepowerPB
"NTA. 11k is nothing compared to the real cost of raising two children."
"He should have contributed years ago." ~ lizardellie
"Nope…NTA."
"If he REALLY had the accident and is out of work, the court will possibly give him an extension or something, but he can’t just ignore it and hope it goes away." ~ bloodfeier
"I work in family law."
"He could very well get either a temporary suspension, meaning they will stop current support and interest, but that's usually for about 3-6 months."
"But he has to request it."
"Could have saved him a warrant."
"But once the suspension is lifted, he's gonna have a huge balance." ~ GoreGoddezz
"NTA. He owed the money BEFORE the accident."
"You fronted his portion of childbearing costs, and now you’ve come to collect."
"It’s not anyone else’s business, so family and friends can butt out." ~ JadieBugXD
"NTA. That's money he's owed for far too long."
"His circumstances don't change that."
"That's money you should have had to make his kids' lives better."
"Expect him to reach out to your children to try to guilt them."
"Prepare them for this."
"If there's any settlement from the accident for him, it'll first go to you to cover the arrears." ~ KatzAKat
"How did K respond when you first asked him to pay child support?"
"If he responded by saying he'd work under the table for ten years and pay nothing, I'd say you have a precedent to take a good ten years to decide whether to forgive the debt he owes."
"I believe his disability can be garnished if he decides to get creative." ~ EmpressOfMyBackyard
"NTA. He was supposed to be financially responsible for his children (at a bare minimum) and didn't do it."
"You had to bear the full cost on your own, and you deserve to be reimbursed." ~ laughatbridget
"NTA, this has happened to many moms I know."
"These dudes will try to avoid it at all costs."
"Get what’s yours and your kids."
"One of my friends was able to get so much back pay she gave her son a down payment for his condo!" ~ SpiralBreeze
"NTA, I was in a tough situation when my daughter was a toddler, and I couldn't afford to pay anything."
"I wallowed for a week, and then I got a 2nd and 3rd job to pay what I owed."
"Now, at 5 1/2 years, I've never missed a support payment, a daycare fee, or anything major in her life despite living a province away."
"He's reaping what he sowed in my eyes."
"Also, 11k isn't that much; that's basically what I pay in a single year of child support plus half of school fees, daycare fees, supplies, extracurricular activities, birthdays, etc." ~ ihavefaith77
"NTA. The court ordered him to pay it, and he has to pay it."
"If he wants to order to change, he can ask the court to delay it or waive the warrant."
"And if the family and friends are so concerned for him, they can pool together the 11k and clear the debt." ~ foxdogturtlecat
"I'll tell you what I tell everyone who is owed child support: get every penny you're owed, accept no excuses or alternatives."
"You spent your kids' entire childhoods being their sole financial support, when he could and should have been contributing, and I doubt any of your bills would have accepted excuses in lieu of payment during that time."
"Take what's yours, and don't feel a second of regret." ~ JanetheGhost
"Don’t forgive the debt."
"He intentionally dodged his responsibility for 10 YEARS!!"
"His situation sucks, but it’s really all his own doing."
"It’s simply the easily foreseeable consequences of his actions (or inactions). NTA." ~ AdGold205
"NTA. Your kids are 18 and 21."
"He didn't pay child support for 10 years."
"He got in an accident last year."
"If he'd done his best to at least pay child support for the past decade, or if he'd tried to be a present father in any way, and he'd just fallen behind after his accident, I'd say to forgive him 100%."
"But he was never a present father, and he was actively evading child support for the last decade-- basically half of his kids' lives."
"So no-- having had a bad accident last year doesn't erase the 10 years he chose to not fulfill his legal obligation to his kids before any accident."
"And it doesn't erase the 18-21 years he chose not to have any role in his kids' lives." ~ lawfox32
"Let’s not overlook the fact that he waited until both of his children were over 18 years old before getting a legitimate job, thinking he was in the clear. NTA." ~ Fickle-Squirrel-4091
"Don't forgive it."
"I made that exact mistake, forgiving over $100k in child support owed to me."
"He didn't pay support for our 2 boys for their entire lives and asked me to forgive it because it was affecting his credit."
"He was unable to buy a house with his new wife and their 2 small children."
"I guess I felt bad for his new kids."
"Anyway, all your ex has to do is start making payments, and the warrant should go away."
"Even if it doesn't, that is the consequence for actions that he chose."
"If he's not paying support normally, he might as well go to jail and not pay. He doesn't deserve to have a comfortable life at the expense of his children." ~ Mygreenoneeye
"NTA, he has a debt to pay."
"That's what happens when you try to dodge responsibility."
"My niece's dad tried this, thought as soon as she was 18 he was done. Nope."
"Bought property, and before the ink was dry on the closing papers, the state seized and sold it."
"Sucks to suck." ~ Purple_Bowling_Shoes
"NTA. Don’t do it!"
"My friend let her ex off the hook so he could get a passport to go on his honeymoon with the promise that he’d still pay her, and he never did." ~ DestructoGirlThatsMe
"NTA when he was able; he purposely took jobs under the table to avoid child support."
"That's another level of deadbeat."
"He knew he had 2 kids; he knew you are a single mother."
"Instead of trying to give his children a better life, he purposely took under-the-table jobs (and a lot of times they would pay lower as well) just so he doesn't have to pay you." ~ CloudBuilder44
"Where were these friends and family with opinions when you were raising the children on your own while he wasn’t contributing either financially or emotionally?"
"Ignore them and get the money you’re owed. NTA." ~ MissionRevolution306
"NTA, he owes it."
"My son's dad really wasn't in his life (his choice) after we separated, but he did at least pay child support until my son's senior year, then decided he had paid enough. Lol."
"We weren't actually divorced yet, so when we went to court, not only did he have to continue paying; the judge also awarded spousal support."
"Had he just paid through his graduation, he would have been fine.
"I'm sorry their dad was in an accident, but... he owes it." ~ LethargicLynx
"NTA. He should have been paying from the beginning."
"I’m sick of underemployed and shady employed deadbeat parents getting out of their responsibilities." ~ Expensive-Day-3551
NTA. Maybe he's waiting on an insurance payout if he's not at fault."
"Child support can put a lien on the settlement case."
"Once the case is settled, the insurance company will send the settlement to child support." ~ CauliflowerNaive9161
Reddit is with you, OP.
What your ex is going through is sad.
But how could he afford his new bike but NOT pay child support?
He has his journey.
You have to do what's best for you and your kids.
Good Luck.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp