It's easy to sit back and hear about what is considered an obvious scam. But if no one fell for them, no one would do them.
There are people who send money to the Nigerian prince.
Or buy gift cards to redeem their winnings in a lottery they never entered.
A son dealing with his mother's belief that an obvious scam is her ticket to fortune turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit for feedback.
PuzzledOne3927 asked:
"AITA for not allowing my mom to withdraw from her 401k after she's been scammed for over $1,000,000?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Background: My father passed away 5 years ago. My mother (58, female) has sent over $1,500,000 through crypto over the past 6 months through an online task scam. She has claimed every step of the way that 'This is the last step, I swear!'."
"Then something popped up where she had no choice but to put more money into retrieving all her money & more. She refuses to believe it's a scam and still has 100% confidence that it is real."
"She needs to send them $30,000 within 2 weeks and has no way of obtaining this money besides withdrawing from her 401 (k). She has already mortgaged her cars, borrowed against her life insurance, and taken out loans against her house.
"From what I (20, male) know, the only assets she has left is her retirement 401 (k) & her house (small fraction of the total value). She won't be able to sell her house within 2 weeks, so she wants to withdraw from her 401k. Since she is not 59 1/2, she cannot withdraw from her 401 (k)."
"She wants to do a hardship 401 (k)withdrawal under tuition—state she is using the funds to pay for my college tuition—and then send that to the scammers. I believe she would need to pay tax on it in addition to a 10% penalty for withdrawing it before she's 59 1/2."
"She needs a document from the school, which can only be obtained by the student, to apply for her 401 (k) hardship withdrawal. I'm refusing to help her get this document."
"Her perspective:"
"- We are family and we should support each other in hard times."
"- It's her money and she just needs my help accessing it. She's not asking for my money."
"- It's the 'last step' and if she doesn't get her money after this, she'll quit."
"- It's only $30,000 compared to the $1,500,000 she has already put in. She has put in this last bit to get it all back."
"- She would rather lose $30,000 and have the peace of mind knowing they fully scammed her than thinking that she ruined people's lives and lost her money. She believes that they 'lent' her money to get paid since she could not cover the entire amount & that it's affecting their lives."
"- I'm 'ruining' her life because I am stopping her from accessing her own money."
"My perspective:"
"- I just want her to quit sending money and realize it's a scam. If giving her the document would allow her to lose her $30,000 and accept it's a scam, I am fine with that."
"- She has lied every step of the way, always saying it's the last step and that she will quit, but never does. Her promise to quit doesn't have any meaning, and if I enable her to get this money, I'm only ruining her life further when she finally accepts it's a scam."
"- I don't want to be involved in the scam, even if it's just enabling her to access her money."
"- I don't think there will ever be an end until her money runs dry, and if I don't help her here, this may be where her money runs dry."
The OP later added:
"It's a task scam impersonating a website called 'tomatazos'. She does tasks every day for money, but has to put her money in when problems arise."
"She has already sent them the money through crypto. They tell her that their system only gives XX days to withdraw based on some rules. When she goes to withdraw, something always pops up, and the only way to fix it is for her to deposit more money inside."
"I've shown her countless websites & other people saying it's a scam, but she hides behind excuses."
"I do live with her in her house. She pays all the bills and works from home frequently. If shutting off her internet would make her quit, I'd love that. But shutting off her internet would affect her work, and she would be able to turn it back on as easily as I turned it off, since she pays the bills for it."
"She's very set that it's real and admits it looks like a scam from the outside. She brushes off everyone's worries by saying, 'They haven't done it for themselves, so they can't say if it's a scam'. No matter what anyone tells her, she uses that excuse as a shield."
"When I show her posts of people who did it, saying it's a scam, she says, 'They just made a mistake and didn't do it correctly. I know what they did wrong'."
"I pulled up an FBI.gov website that had word-for-word her exact scam, and she says the FBI website is talking about similar scams, but hers is different. She's unreasonable towards any evidence of it being a scam."
"We've spoken to a lawyer and bank representative. I looked into getting power of attorney and guardianship, but was told that I would most likely lose the case."
"She originally banked with Chase & they caught on & suspended her accounts a few months ago. She has been moving from bank to bank since then."
"I really don't know what other options I have. I feel like I can only wait until she loses all her money and accepts it's a scam."
"I have tried contacting adult protective services, but they unfortunately weren't able to help. The representative was really polite and tried her best, but told me that my mother wasn't old enough (at least 65) and didn't have any disability."
"I have tried calling the local police and was told that they can't do anything unless she is the one to file a report. I can't file anything on her behalf, sadly. I made a report on IC3 for fraud a few months ago, but haven't heard anything back, sadly."
*EDITOR'S NOTE: IC3 (Internet Crime Complaint Center) is a website where a report can be filed with the FBI for suspected internet-facilitated criminal activity
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"I believe that I may be in the wrong because it is my mother's money that I am preventing her from obtaining. Even if I know she is being scammed and I am doing it to look out for her, it is her money at the end of the day."
"Should I be stopping her from accessing her own money? I think I am doing the right thing, but I want others' opinions."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"Sadly you are right, there is basically nothing you can do to force her to stop. But as others have said, make sure your accounts are completely separate from hers, that she is not on any of yours, and you are not in any way listed on any of the loans she has taken out."
"And lock your credit."
"About the only thing you can do right now is sit her down, tell her you love her, but that you will not be destroyed financially to pay for her bad decisions. Which means that since she would not listen to you that this is a scam and she has lost all of her retirement and most of her assets, you will not be giving her money or helping her out financially as she ages."
"The downside of this is that it may make her more desperate to continue to try to get her money back out. If you get along with your mom generally, you could offer her this lifeline and tell her if she walks away now, not another dime sent, commits and follows through with complete financial transparency with you going forward, you will allow her to move in with you in the future if it becomes necessary while she is in good health."
"I would potentially ask for a voluntary make you her financial conservator to protect you both, but I doubt she will go for it until she has some space to finally admit to herself she was scammed." ~ myssi24
"NTA. Please take a step back and realize scam or no scam, what she wants to do is commit financial fraud and, f*ck to the no, don't do that."
"She is GUESSING there won't be any ramifications, but who knows? It would be clear fraud to withdraw funds under false pretenses." ~ pottersquash
"NTA. You realize your mom has basically given away her retirement and is going to struggle just to survive for the next 20+ years." ~ deefop
"I'm so sorry you're going through this. Please be assured you are NTA. She is the victim of a crime but doesn't recognize it which makes this 1,000 times worse for everyone."
"Do not give her any money. Do not give her access to any of your accounts...ever. Don't sign anything she asks you to or help her in any way in this regard." ~ IamIrene
"And for the love of all things god, LOCK DOWN YOUR CREDIT. Someone who is already willing to commit fraud can be desperate enough to defraud you—because they'll 'pay it all back when they get the money'." ~ Jess_cue
The OP provided a small update:
"I mainly wanted reassurance that I was making the correct choice. She's my mom, and even though she's made a lot of dumb mistakes, I do care for her a lot and was starting to go back on my decision."
"Everyone saying that the correct choice is to not help her makes it easier to go through with. I don't have many people I can discuss this with in real life, unfortunately, so seeing other people's opinions really helps."
OP may not be able to stop his mom from destroying her life.
But he can steer clear of aiding and abetting her efforts and of committing financial fraud by signing off on her 401 (k) tuition scam.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp