Relations with one's mother-in-law can frequently be fraught, but for one woman on Reddit the conflict went to a whole new level.
She and her future mother-in-law, who is also engaged, were having a great time planning both of their weddings simultaneously.
Until the mother-in-law wanted to combine their weddings into one big wedding.
The Original Poster (OP), who goes by the name skinnybowser1 on the site, wasn't sure about how she responded, so she went to the AITA (Am I The A**hole) subReddit for perspective.
The OP asked:
"AITA for refusing to let my MIL combine my wedding with hers?"
She explained:
"I (25 F[emale]) have been engaged to my lovely fiance (27 M[ale]) for a few months now, everything has been perfect, my family absolutely adores him and his family is just the kindest."
"They are so comforting to be around and they welcome me with open arms."
"But here's the problem, aside from me and my fiance getting married so is his (56 F[emale]) mother which I have never had a problem with."
"In fact, I'm very happy for her, we have been planning our weddings together and it's just been such a delight."
"We have bonded so much from these meetups and I've learned so much about her."
"At one of our meetups, she brings up having our weddings combined together and states 'so we can experience the same love'."
"I say no to this because I am not comfortable with sharing my wedding with someone else due to the fact my wedding is supposed to be about me and my fiance ONLY."
"I tell her that I am not comfortable with that thought and it would just be better if our weddings stayed separate, she said she understands but keeps on pushing with the matter to the point where I burst and tell her that I am not comfortable with sharing my wedding with someone who is 21 years older than me and on their 3rd marriage."
"She began uncontrollably sobbing telling me I'm a nasty b*tch that can't take care of myself."
"She informs her and my family about what happened and also posted about the issue on Facebook saying how I'm gonna be a sh*tty wife to my husband and an even sh*ttier mom to his kids."
"My husband and his family are absolutely outraged with me meanwhile some people are on my side. So Am I the A**hole?"
People on Reddit were then asked to judge who was in the wrong in this situation based on the following categories:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- NAH - No A**holes Here
And most agreed that OP's mother-in-law's suggestion was strange and presumptuous, though many also thought OP's delivery could have been kinder.
"NTA and frankly it's quite weird your husband isn't backing you on this." --BazTheBaptist
"Come on- yes YTA. Not because you don't want a joint wedding, of course that's not the issue."
"The issue is that you wrecked her confidence and were unnecessarily horrible. She's going to be feeling awful now."
"She thought she had a lovely relationship with you and you were happy for her. Instead you showed her that you think she's worth less than you because she's older, and you don't respect her upcoming marriage because it's her 3rd."
"You made her feel small and dirty." --OHP123456789
"NTA. However. Your soon to be husband is outraged at you also?"
"That would be a deal breaker for me, not saying it should be for you but if he doesn't have your back now he never will." --cknwingz
"Also, 2 weddings combined?"
"Weddings are already tremendously stressful on families. Smashing 2 of them together makes it far more likely something will go calamitously wrong."
"That's 2 potential bridezillas. Even if you eliminate the OP as a potential bridezilla… that means OP might have to deal with another bride being bridezilla at her wedding."
"It also means massively more complicated wedding party politics… which are already a huge disaster in the brewing. Do you have 2 Maids of Honor?"
"2 whole wedding parties? What if someone wants the same groomsman? Do they dice for the rights to use the son/ brother as a groomsman?"
"Gah… this all makes my head explode."
"NTA…. For gods sake, make this monstrosity stop." --Dennis_Ogre
"Yeah, I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to find a comment on OP's fiancé's reaction."
"The fact that he has sided with his MIL on one of his and his fiancee's most important days in their lives doesn't bode well for their upcoming marriage."
"Total deal breaker for me. If it were me, I'd tell him that the double wedding can go ahead, but he'd have to find another partner." --newleaf123456
"NTA The fact that she took it to Facebook is ominous to me. She's 51 publicly dumping on her future daughter-in-law because she would not take NO as your answer."
"And your fiancé is angry with you? He should be livid that his mother would go to this kind of extreme."
"What kind of premarital counseling do you have set up? Your fiancé's relationship with his mother needs to be discussed with an objective 3rd party." --5115E
"Yeah, she seems to have gone scorched earth over one comment. I can understand it was probably hurtful, but the reaction was relationship ending."
"It's going to be really hard to patch things up after saying she's going to be a bad wife and mother."
"Also, I can bet that MIL would not have wanted to share her first wedding day with a 3 times married bride either. It's OP's first wedding and it's her time to shine."
"As for the fiancé. Ugh, just yuck."
"OP, RUN from this family!!! 🏃♀️ 🏃♀️ 🏃♀️" --kill4kandy
"NTA. But if your fiancé isn't taking your side, I'd reconsider the engagement." --CourtGuilty1551
"Screw dying on that hill and start pitching people off the cliff. This is a ridiculous ask to begin with."
"MIL is being a sh*te and I almost wonder if she's speeding up her own nuptials to coincide with OP and her son."
"NTA." --BrownSugarBare
"NTA. Kinda weird she wants to have her wedding with her son."
"Is she planning on being at the honeymoon to make sure you have the kids you're gonna be a sh*tty parent to also?"
"Maybe get a two bedroom suite!"
"If she's getting this worked up now, do you think it will be better after your wedding?"
"WAIT WHERE IS HUBBY TO BE IN ALL THIS is she's posting stuff about his soon to be wife and mother of his kids?" --stilljenni
"NTa of course - your wedding SHOULD be your own but wow...that took a turn really sharply and quickly! everything was sunshine and roses then BAM!"
"NTA of course but your fiancee should have taken up the argument against the same-day wedding once you said your initial 'no'."
"You went a little overboard wtih throwig in her age and that it's her 3rd marriage..that gives the implication there is something wrong with HER and not just that you didn't want to share a wedding with ANYONE."
"Your 'husband' (did you already get married?) is right to be outraged at the insult but should have your back with the no joint wedding thing."
"That your future MIL trashed you all over facebook is so crappy. You need a heart to heart with your fiance. Quickly." --tinny36
"NTA"
"This is just weird and NOT a good idea because I picture in my head her suddenly wanting to control the entire thing ….I mean what next wedding photos of all 4 of you????"
"I suggest you stop planning with her and create your own day"
"If she can't accept the two of you want a day focused on yourselves and not her and her fiancé then that's on HER" --ColdstreamCapple
"NTA"
"Frankly, I'm getting a creepy Jocasta vibe from the fact that she wants to get married with her son. And your fiance is choosing his mother's side."
"Think about putting wedding planning on hold for a while. Just don't talk about wedding plans, don't look at dresses or venues, and don't book anything. Set it all aside."
"Ask your fiance to go to couple's counseling with you. The two of you have some stuff you should work through before marriage."
"And when you are ready to resume wedding planning, don't discuss any of your plans with fMIL. Don't offer suggestions, don't compare notes, don't tell her any details of your plans at all."
"And also, set passwords with every vendor. Don't tell your fiance the passwords. Just set passwords. And make sure all of the contracts are only in your name, so no one else can cancel or alter your arrangements." --teresajs
"ESH"
"She sucks more because she shouldn't have been pushing it and shouldn't have gone off talking sh*t on Facebook, but you shouldn't have brought her age and number of marriages into it." --CuriousInsanity413
"NTA. Read what you wrote. Everything was fine as long as you did what she agreed to."
"As soon as you went a different way, you were insulted and harassed. And your fiance isn't on your side."
"Why do you want to be part of this family? They just showed you their true colors." --CatJudgement
Hopefully OP and her mother-in-law can get past this.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp