Behavior issues in children affect more than just their immediate family.
But does the responsibility for those children begin and end with their guardians?
Are other family members required to tolerate or accommodate behavior like fighting, tantrums, violent outbursts, or stealing?
A mother turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback over a situation with someone else's kids.
Officer_mama2016 asked:
"AITA for stealing back Pokémon cards Mlmy fiancé's nephews took (and possibly taking extras)?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"To set the background, I'm 29-female, my fiancé is 31-male, and I have three children (8-female, 7-female, 5-male). Sometime last year, my daughter Summer (the 8-year-old) started collecting Pokémon cards that her bio-dad would gift her during visitation."
"I haven't kept up with the fandom as I aged, but collected coins as a kid and loved the idea of helping my daughter grow her collection. I have also supplemented the collection from lucky Goodwill finds. It is about 5 binders worth of cards, with cards from between 1995 to 2018 generally and some are very rare."
"My future sister-in-law (SIL) asked my fiancé if we could babysit her two sons, Peter (8-male) and Paul (7-male), while she was out of town for the weekend as she has to pick up her husband's nephew for something."
"I was not keen on this for a few reasons, being:"
"• Peter has to attend an alternative school for anger issues and outbursts, and though they have become less frequent I wouldn't know how to handle it if something happens."
• Peter has had issues in the past with stealing money from my fiancé and me when we would leave cash out in our room. His mom would get defensive about it, but $10 was never something I'd die on a hill for, so I'd usually drop it."
"• Peter has also tried stealing my daughter's Pokémon cards in the past or my DBZ cards. I took them back but it blemished my relationship with my SIL a tad."
"Despite all this I hoped the weekend could go smoothly as she needed the help, so me and fiancé agreed."
"However, last night while I was at work, Summer called me and asked if she could 'give her Pokémon cards to Peter'. I could hear Peter whispering in the background."
"I was very clear in saying NO because I couldn't advise if there would be a fair trade or if he would take the more valuable cards. Later I asked my daughter if she really wanted to give him the cards and she said 'no'."
"This morning while tidying my daughter's room I saw all the Pokémon binders out. I had a bad feeling, opened them up, and discovered HALF THE COLLECTION missing. The binders were full but now there were empty pages and scattered cards missing. I was pissed."
"I went to Peter's backpack and found some of my DBZ cards, my other daughter's full rock collection, and a massive plastic bag with a bunch of Pokémon cards dumped in."
"I took everything back and sorted my daughter's cards from Peter's, though I was just going by the card's print dates as Peter only had cards from 2022 and beyond (so I thought). I put the sorted cards in a lunch box."
"I told my fiancé at the time about this, but Peter and Paul have noticed their card stash is much lighter and started whining, saying that their aunt gifted them some older cards that are missing."
"Even if they say some of their cards are missing, I literally have no way of knowing. If they hadn't touched our binders, it wouldn't have been an issue at all."
"Hell, they could have nicked a few, and I wouldn't have noticed or cared. But so many were gone, and they just tossed them in a big ole bag."
"I'm sick and tired of them thinking they can just steal whatever they want from our house."
"AITA for not giving them any cards back, even if some are actually theirs?"
"I'm worried they'll complain to my future SIL."
The OP later added:
"I honestly think my fiancé has a soft spot for his little sister/her sons because they used to all live together, and her prior relationship was abusive, so he was a big part of her support system."
"Which I love about him! But this also means that he has often given them the benefit of the doubt when issues arise."
"In the past, my future SIL never really believed me when these issues were brought up. And when he'd get caught stealing money or cards, she'd seem upset that I was making it known or asking for it to be fixed."
"We've had other (non-major) issues before and I don't want to seem like there's always an issue with the kids."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I need to know if AITA for taking back all of the older cards I found in my fiancé's nephew's stash, after discovering that he stole from my daughter."
"I may be the a**hole because the kids are claiming that they are missing cards their aunt gave them. However, since they stole so much, I can't verify what's theirs and what's my daughter's, so I haven't given any back."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"NTA. Honestly, the petty in me says if you accidentally had a few of his cards, it's karma for being a little terrorist. If he complains to his mom, I hope she lets him know these are the consequences of being that way, and I hope he learns a lesson.
"If mom comes at you instead, it sounds like a perfect segue to the conversation regarding no future babysitting." ~ TrainerHonest2695
"NTA, but tell your SIL before the kids do! When there are conflicts among children, it's important for all the parents to work together on this."
"Just explain that they took tons of your kid's cards, and you did your best to recover the correct cards. They are now claiming that you took some of theirs, but you don't believe them."
"And even if you did take a few by accident, that's a reasonable consequence for their repeated stealing."
"And then do not give in or negotiate. You were the parent in charge for the weekend, and you did your best. That's all there is to it." ~ ScarletNotThatOne
"Tell them they get to rejoin the fun times when they learn to stop stealing. Or invite the one that doesn't steal, and say the consequences for people who take things that belong to others is that no one wants to be around them."
"That we can want things other people have and be sad that we don't have it but then we have to deal with it and move on—we can't just take things and still think we will have friends after." ~ PokeyWeirdo12
"NTA. You don't know if they're telling the truth anyway. But you do understand that you can't have them in your home again or unsupervised with your daughter, right?"
"It's not fair to your children to let kids that pressure them & steal from them in their home. Your fiancé can see the kids at their house if he wants to help his sister again." ~ amjay8
But many took OP to task over her avoidance of the issue.
"Why do you keep exposing you and your kids to this? What are you even getting out of this relationship. You're absolutely NTA this time, but you would be if you keep exposing your kids to this thief." ~ tybbiesniffer
"With respect, you're handling this wrong. There is no 'fixing this'. There is no 'compromise' here and you should stop trying to make one."
"You need to talk to your fiancé and tell him straight up that you don't want these kids in the house anymore because they are thieves."
"You don't want anyone in the house who steals your stuff. You'd say the exact same thing if it was your own mother, you'd make no excuses and say you don't want her there."
"So you want to have an agreement with him that those two kids are not welcome in the house for at least a year. Maybe they will learn in a year, at which point you and he can revisit."
"But you want you and him to be in agreement that they are not welcome, that if they show up they will be turned away."
"And that if this causes family drama, you will be happy to be the bad guy, posting in a family email exactly why they are not welcome, explaining that this isn't 'kids borrowing stuff' but rather them intentionally going through a binder of valuable preserved graded collectors items and tossing them haphazard into their own backpack."
"Anyone who steals from you is not welcome in your home, full stop."
"You need to have a spine here. I know it's hard. But you need to stand up for your family." ~ SirEDCaLot
"You're taking this way too lightly. Honestly, YTA to your kids for repeatedly putting your kids in a position where they will suffer."
"The nephews are a known quantity. They're going to steal, break things, and terrorize your kids."
"YOU are the one who is putting your kids in a position to be harmed, though. YOU are inviting them into your house, apparently unsupervised?"
"This is WAY more than just stealing cards. Your nephews apparently coerced, threatened, or potentially hurt your kids to force them to agree to give up their treasured possessions."
"You should find out ASAP what actually happened, because I seriously doubt the anger problems, uncontrollable kid just politely asked your kid nicely to give over half of her entire collection."
"I cannot imagine how, as a kid, I would feel about that. If they got their most rare card back and it was damaged, it's not just that it was stolen, but YOUR KID was forced to give it away."
"Every time your kid looks at that card, she's going to wonder what if she said 'no'? Depending on what the nephews said, maybe she'll wish she were a little stronger. A little tougher."
"I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but you need to understand that YOU did this. You need to protect your kids."
"So this is not a 'let's have a conversation about what to do next' situation.
"This is a 'those kids are never alone with my children again, period'. They are not going to be allowed over to the house. They're not going on playdates. They're not coming for the holiday dinner. This is non-negotiable. Your kids need to feel safe in their own house."
That should be a bigger priority than not making waves with your future in-laws. Why do you care more about their feelings than your children's safety?" ~ ErikLovemonger
Something needs to be done about the stealing.
Just because the boys' mother chooses to ignore and cover up the problem, that doesn't mean the rest of the family—and the significant others of the family—have to do the same.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp