Going on vacation is meant to be a nice unwinding time to relax and recuperate. Hopefully you and the people around you can get a break from the stress in your life.
Unfortunately for SamualTJ425346, that may not be the case for her own vacation. Her husband is insisting on bringing his brother along which may make things uncomfortable for the original poster (OP).
Unsure if she was wrong, OP decided to ask the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit about how she reacted.
The question she posed was:
"AITA not wanting my husband's 17 yo brother to come with us on our vacation?"
OP isn't sure she can handle her brother-in-law on the trip.
"For context: My f(emale) 25 husband's m(ale) 27 remaining parent passed away about 4 months ago."
"He has a 17 yo brother (Ryan) who is now living with their aunt. He's autistic and I kind of find it hard to interact with him and being around him generally gives me anxiety."
"Anyways, my husband and I planned to go on vacation and he told me that he would like to take Ryan with us to cheer him up a bit after all that he's been through."
"I declined but he went on about how this isn't a couple's getaway and that he was okay with me bringing my friend with us and asked why he can't bring Ryan."
"I told him that first off, I already stated how I can't handle Ryan's autism, and also, I've never been on vacation with him and I don't know how he would behave. My husband got offended and called me cruel to think it's OK to exclude his brother who is now an orphan basically just because of slight inconveniences."
"I told him to drop it but he lectured me about how he's the one paying for it which really irked me because I'd paid for so many things in the past."
"His aunt called to give me 'stern talk' about this saying that Ryan did nothing to me and that it was cruel of me to try to exclude him and ignore my husband's wishes."
"We're still arguing about it and my friend thinks that my husband is trying to control me by using the fact that he is the one paying to spring whoever he wants on me on the vacation."
Is her brother-in-law being autistic and OP not wanting to interact with him on vacation a good reason for refusing to invite him?
On Reddit, the users of the board judged OP for wanting her husband to not invite his brother by including one of the following in their response:
- NTA – Not the A**hole
- YTA – You're the A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everybody Sucks Here
The board had some differing opinions about this scenario. On one hand, OP is going on vacation and would like to be comfortable and relax, and having her brother-in-law there will make her uncomfortable.
But the majority of commenters looked at it differently. OP is only refusing it because her brother-in-law is further on the spectrum than she feels comfortable with.
Rather than look inward and figure out why being around him gives her anxiety, OP would rather just not deal with it.
The board voted that OP was TA in this situation.
"YTA. The ableism is strong here. And your friend is enabling your bullsh**." - LittleBelt2386
"OP, you should really sit with why your husband's little brother makes you uncomfortable and what that says about you."
"Have you read anything about autism or put any effort into trying to get to know him? This is the family you married into, and it is heartbreaking how cold you are being because he is autistic."
"For your family's sake, work through this discomfort and grow as a person."
"YTA." - poppy3939
"YTA. Kid lost his parent, your friend is coming, and your husband is paying? Yeah."
"Also, info needed: Why does his autism make you anxious?" - Astra_Bear
"YTA, how people treat the disabled says a lot about their character. My bro in law is autistic as well and I would never exclude him because he is different and can have small episodes at times."
"I'm not surprised your husband is mad, you sound like a spoiled child." - westexmanny
"YTA I don't think your husband is trying to sub you into the idea because he's paying, he's obviously angry because he's trying to do something nice for his brother who he loves because they've been through a tough time."
"Why can't they go together without you? That's what I'd do." - chloeoliviarr
"YTA."
"'He's autistic and I kind of find it hard to interact with him and being around him generally gives me anxiety.'"
"This is a you issue, and one to speak to a therapist about. It's not ok to exclude someone because they have autism. And that is what you are doing."
"Your husband's comment about paying for the holiday was sh**ty. But no, he is not trying to control you. He's trying to include his little brother who lost his parents 4 months ago. Sometimes sucking it up and being kind is the best thing to do."
"If you weren't bringing a friend I'd have considered saying NTA." - happybanana134
However, as stated, not everyone agreed. Some people wanted to know what the brother-in-law thought of the situation.
For these commenters, they think the stimulation of a trip might be too much. Additionally, they feel if OP didn't sign up to care for her brother-in-law, she shouldn't be expected to on a trip.
This led to a debate in the comments.
"NTA. My adult BIL is severely autistic and any trip outside of his normal routine would trigger overstimulation. It would be unpleasant for everyone including him to be there."
"We don't know the extent of your BIL's autism, but your feelings should be considered. If care of your BIL was not something you signed up for, or are willing to help with, you need to be clear with your husband."
"This may be a deal breaker for you both." - fbombmom_
"I don't understand all the YTAs. People here are being self-righteous as always."
"It is different and often difficult to interact with someone who is autistic."
"You have to explain a lot of things, you have to avoid saying or doing certain things because they might be triggering, autistic people can react in a strange way to things and need to be comforted, some autistic people don't like touch or certain environments or music or food."
"It changes the dynamic of what was supposed to be a light, chilled-out holiday, and the needs of the brother will have to come first. It is not ableist to admit that this is what is going to happen."
"And it doesn't make OP an AH to want her holiday the way she imagined it to be." - nana_banana2
"Exactly. And it was a planned vacation. The husband invited his minor brother - ten years younger than he is! - on a vacation that they had already planned together."
"It's quite possible the wife is ableist but we just don't have the information here. Inviting a new person on a vacation is not some trivial thing."
"Is the husband being nice and thoughtful to try to include his brother? Yes."
"Is OP ableist and not putting in the effort to be decent and respectful to her BiL? Very possible."
"Is OP also reasonable for wanting a bit of veto power over who will be with them in close quarters during a vacation? F***ing absolutely."
"I could just not like your face and I don't want to spend my planned free downtime with you, I don't owe anybody else my time and energy this way."
"Now if the BiL needed more help and OP refuses to accommodate and host him, that's far worse, but we're talking about the husband forcing his brother into a situation without giving his wife some equal respect as a partner here."
"People aren't entitled to go on other people's vacations, even if the reasons for not liking them are poorly motivated. So she may be a bit of an AH, but not because of this." - Holgrin
"I think her husband would know where on the spectrum his brother is and whether the trip would be a good idea for him.."
"Her feelings are that she's uncomfortable around him and doesn't want him around when he's going through a tough time which sucks" - RidingDrake
"I think if the husband wants to take a trip on his own with BIL, planned around BIL's comfortability level, that would be better. He shouldn't have hijacked a couple's trip with his wife to do this."
"Long term, they definitely need to figure this out because the aunt won't be able to be his full-time caregiver forever." - fbombmom_
"It's not a couples trip according to the husband and her friend is joining them. Also, the husband clearly feels it's an appropriate trip for his brother."
"So without any other evidence to indicate otherwise, not even from the OP, it sounds like she just doesn't like being around her BIL rather than he's particularly difficult or it's not a suitable holiday for him." - Exciting-Pension9416
There's a time and place to have this conversation and it was during the planning stages of the trip.
Additionally, OP needs to consider what is causing her anxiety and see if she can work through it. Her brother-in-law is in her family now and she can't just avoid him all the time.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp