When is a gift not really a gift?
Apparently when the gift giver needs money. Or at least that's what it looked like to Reddit when a father turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Comfortable_Art_4673 asked:
"AITA if I sell my youngest daughter's car to help cover my oldest's tuition?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I am a 55-year-old male, my daughters are 21, female and 17, female. My oldest is finishing up her junior year of college at a very good school."
"We are all very proud of her. She has a full-ride academic scholarship that is dependent on her GPA."
"Well, she says based on her current grades, after this semester her GPA will dip below the cutoff, and after extensive back and forth on the phone with the school, they say it is contractual and we will be obligated to pay next year's tuition."
"If she gets her GPA back above the threshold next semester, we can apparently 'readdress' the situation to determine if her scholarship can be reinstated for the final semester of school."
"When I tell you we bent over backwards trying to find a solution before we came to the one we did... we've done the math, and she can't get her grades up with how much of the semester is left."
"She also can't take enough credits during the summer based on how the summer classes are structured to raise her GPA high enough even if she got As, and the school refuses to make any exceptions."
"Of course, we were upset with her for allowing this to happen, and we had a long talk with her, and she's upset at herself too. But she's a very smart kid who really struggled with her mental health from sophomore year into junior year, and it affected her grades."
"Under no circumstance did we want her to leave college with only one year left. That just truly would not be fair to her after how hard she has worked."
"For my youngest's 17th birthday back in December, we got her a brand new Toyota Rav4. This was somewhat a gift for the fact that she has also been working really hard in school and getting great grades."
"She's finishing up her junior year as well, and has begun the application process for college. The car was a big deal. And she was very happy to have it, and has been driving it non-stop."
"Well, this week, her mom and I sat her down and told her that we're very sorry but if we can't find another solution, we have to sell her car to help cover oldest's tuition—mind you, the cost of this car will cover probably 1/3 of the tuition for one full year after FAFSA, probably less with the value depreciation."
"She became extremely upset, and told us that it was unfair we were 'rewarding' our oldest for failing and 'punishing' her for succeeding, and 'who's car would se sell if the same happened to her?'."
"But, we never wanted her to feel punished, or for our oldest to feel rewarded. It's just the reality of what we need to do right now."
"If the same happened to her, we would do everything in our power to help."
"So, please tell me if I would be an a**hole for selling the car."
In comments, the OP disclosed the oldest had a substantial college fund.
"Once she got the scholarship, he emptied it and used the money to buy the youngest her car and put the rest of the money into paying off his mortgage."
The OP summed up their situation.
"I have not taken the action yet, but I might be the a**hole if I sell my daughter's car to cover my older daughter's college tuition because she was given that car as a gift for working hard, and my oldest daughter let her grades slip."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors unanimously declared the OP was the a**hole (YTA).
"YTA or would be. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul. If you sell that car, the youngest will resent you forever."
"Also, how do you have the money to buy a 17-year-old a brand-new car and not have enough for tuition? What were you going to do for her education fund?" ~ RashestHippo
"My sisters had my dad and mom to help with college. My mom died when I was a high school senior."
"I worked 40 hours a week and went to school full time and took out student loans. One time, I was short $3k and needed my father's help."
"He gave it, but then used it against me as many times as he could. Never did that to my sisters."
"It's is one of many reasons I am no contact with my dad. YTA." ~ TheDarkHelmet1985
"My mom used my college fund to send my sister to a fancy boarding school for high school. I went to public school for high school and had nothing for college."
"That's one of many reasons I'm NC with my mom. I've got a list a mile long. YTA. I'm 45 and still feel the sting."
"She favored me briefly when I was pregnant with my son, the first grandchild. My sister—the golden child—said 'Mom's acting really weird. She's being mean. I don't know what's wrong with her'."
"I laughed, because it had finally switched. It didn't last long." ~ Liss78
"YTA. Why can't your eldest child get a job to support herself? And/or take out student loans?"
"It is not fair to penalise your youngest child in favour of their sister. If you do it, be prepared for her to go low to no contact with you as soon as she is able."
"She will resent you, and deservedly so. It's not her fault that her sister's GPA isn't currently good enough for financial support."
"And you really are rewarding eldest's failure and punishing youngest's success. There's no two ways about it."
"Also, you gave the car as a gift. That is now your youngest daughter's car to sell or to keep."
"It is no longer yours. Don't try to rob Peter to pay Paul." ~ JaneDoe_83
"That car was a gift only 4 months ago. I would be PISSED if my parents took back a gift after only a few months because my sibling did something wrong."
"Did they have to buy her a new car? No. But it is also a good, reliable car that will last for ten years or more and not be super expensive to maintain."
"So, a really good choice for someone's first car. My parents bought each of us a good (admittedly used) car late in high school for us to use at college, and all of them lasted through college years and beyond." ~ One_Ad_704
"Why didn't they help the oldest get help when she was struggling? YTA OP." ~ wylietrix
"OP, YTA. You sent your eldest to a ridiculously expensive school that you couldn't cover and just prayed that her scholarship would see her through."
"You spent way too much on an overpriced gift for your 17yo that you really couldn't afford."
"You didn't ensure your eldest was supported during school so her needs were taken care of, some of which might have included moving school to something less stressful."
"You're willing to screw over your youngest to manage this situation with your eldest."
"Cannot say YTA enough. But here you are."
"So maybe try:"
"a) get a lawyer and have them review the contract with the school"
"b) have your eldest get a part-time job"
"c) see a financial advisor and have them help you plan for this. You may need a mortgage or second mortgage."
"You may need to downgrade your own car. You may need to move house. You may need to file bankruptcy."
"What you can't do is steal your foolish gift back to cover your own stupidity." ~ Special_Lemon1487
"I had (not full ride, but significant) academic scholarships… they give a grace period usually. One semester, my GPA dropped under the cut-off for the scholarships."
"They notified me before the start of next semester that if I didn't improve them that semester I would lose the scholarship. They don't just pull the rug out from under you."
"I guarantee the older daughter has known about this for longer than she's telling the parents. YTA." ~ somehorsegirl
"YTA. Your eldest can take out education loans for her last year. And you can take out parental loans if needed."
"That is what most students do. She can also seek a part-time job. There is no reason or justification for taking away the car you gifted your younger child." ~ thirdtryisthecharm
"My parents used my college fund to pay for my sister's extravagant wedding. I was 17. She was 23."
"Back then, loans were strictly need based and I couldn't get enough and my scholarship wasn't enough to cover my dream school. I went to a state school with aid and a scholarship and it turned out fine."
"But I'm 50 now and it's still a wound in my soul. Every so often, I wonder about the alternate path I almost went down." ~ itsasecretidentity
"YTA—your eldest screwed up her scholarship, and you are making your youngest pay for it. Your eldest has to pay for her own mistake, even if it means dropping out."
"If you can help her, great, but it's not on your younger kid to provide the funds. Also, if you can't pay one year of eldest's tuition, younger may need funds for her own college which is right around the corner."
"The car is an asset she can use for her own schooling if needs be. In no circumstances should you take back a gift from the younger child because you want to save elder from her own mistake."
"Eldest knew the terms of her scholarship—every academic scholarship has a GPA minimum, everyone knows that. She didn't work hard enough for whatever reason—none of which have anything to do with her younger sister."
"The car was a gift for working hard, and you now want to monetize it to help the kid that didn't work hard enough? How grossly unfair and unkind to your younger daughter." ~ Shoddy-Teach3981
The car may have been an extravagant purchase the OP really couldn't afford, but once the gift was given, it shouldn't be taken back to cover someone else's mistakes.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp