Making a remark about someone's body is always going to be risky.
Regardless of whether you are complimenting or insulting them.
This is simply owing to the fact that countless people's views of their own bodies are so complex that they are bound to have an emotional reaction whenever their body becomes the topic of conversation.
Particularly if people are giving advice about their bodies.
The sister of a recent Redditor was passionate about beauty pageants.
However, her luck was 50/50. She excelled in certain pageants but came up short in others.
As the original poster (OP) felt that this statistic was owing to her sister's physical appearance, she suggested that perhaps she stick to the type of pageants she continued to win.
A suggestion the OP's sister didn't appreciate at all.
Wondering if she was out of line, the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where she asked fellow Redditors;
"AITA for advising my sister to only enter plus-size beauty pageants and/or become a plus-size model?"
The OP explained why her suggestion to her sister ended up putting a strain on their relationship:
"I (31 F[emale]) have a sister (27 F[emale]) who has done beauty pageants all her life."
"Losing affects her more the older she gets."
"At 22, she gained weight and became plus-size."
"As a plus-size woman, she had won every plus-size beauty pageant she's entered."
"But as a plus-size woman, she has yet to win a beauty pageant that's not specifically for plus-size women."
"She has done some plus-size modeling but treats it like a stepping stone."
"Recently, she did extremely well for a plus-size 27-year-old woman in a beauty pageant available to all women."
"She got runner-up, but the winner was a thin 19-year-old woman."
"Afterwards, she was crying and asking what she should do now."
"I gave her advice, but she accused me of being jealous."
"Am I the a**hole ?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community was somewhat divided as to whether or not they felt the OP was the a**hole for telling her sister she should only compete in plus-sized beauty pageants.
Some felt that the OP's advice wasn't helpful, even if she wasn't exactly wrong, but that her sister needed more serious help beyond which pageants to participate in.
"She came second at 27 years, against a 19-year-old?"
"How is that not a MASSIVE win?"
"Sounds to me like the problem isn't her being 'plus size' (and I am noticing that you're not giving specifics #SideEye), but her extreme reaction to losing."
"Kinda YTA, because you're not really helping."
"If you truly want to help, get her actual help."- Content-Army2384
"YTA."
"I'm not into pageants and don't know much about how much of a future she may have (or not have) in them, but the fact that she came in as runner-up shows she's a definite contender."
"She must have placed ahead of a lot of skinnier contestants to get that far."
"What she probably needed to hear from her sister is that she did really great at the pageant, not that she shouldn't bother to try anymore because she's too fat to ever have a chance at winning."-tidderor
"Did you give advice when she wanted sympathy?"
"If so then yes, YTA, why would you bother to ask?"- Joy2b
"YTA."
"Because she probably just wanted some comfort in the moment."
"I dunno how people have become so socially stunted, but try and be a bit less of a robot."- Min_sora
"YTA."
"That was a console moment, not a suggestion/problem-solving moment."- pottersquash
Others saw where the OP was coming from and think that her suggestion might have been misunderstood by her sister, even if they still agreed she needed professional help, and that she should consider putting her pageant career to rest:
"NTA, but tentatively."
"Depending on how you actually handled the situation, as it is one that is fraught with a lot of emotionally triggering issues."
"That said, I would attempt to suggest some kind of therapy because she should have other areas of pride beyond her physical appearance."
"The reality is that she is 27, which is getting a bit old realistically for the pageant circuit - I am NOT saying that women lose physical attractiveness when they are 27, but only that the whole sphere of beauty pageants is one that is skewed to young contestants as some of them even have age cut-offs."- Jujulabee
"NTA."
"Plus-sized woman here, and if there's one thing I've learned, it's that when given the choice between a thin woman and a plus-size woman, people are going to say the thin woman is more attractive."
"She's not going to change society's mind."
"I'm sure your sister is beautiful, but she's not going to win against a thin woman."
"It's actually pretty impressive she was runner-up."
"You're giving her a more realistic goal to reach toward."- flooperdooper4
"NTA."
"But this is a good example of toxic beauty standards that pageants perpetuate."
"She is likely beautiful, thi,n and plus-sized but the 'value of being thin' was probably ingrained into her."- Left_Set_5610
"A weak NTA."
"If she didn't ask, you shouldn't have volunteered, but it sounds like your sister places an unhealthy emphasis on appearances and other people's opinions."
"It's a cliche, but it's who she is inside that counts."
"I think we all have known really attractive people who were complete jerks."- PikesPique
"NTA."
"Your advice was well-intentioned to spare her disappointment."- Realistic_Head4279
"NTA."
"But shut up in the future."
"This is a situation where both of you can say will be right, so don't say anything at all."- afurtivesquirrel
"You're NTA, your sister is an adult."
"Time for her to make adult decisions for her life moving forward."
"She transitioned to plus size as she became plus sized."
"Yet what next?"
"Does she want to make that her career?"
"The proof of what you are encouraging is there, she only ranks as plus size within plus size arena, there's no going back in time."
"However she can make decisions moving fwd as to how she wants to live."
"Limited in a plus-size market, in a plus-size what, contest?"
"What is she going to do about reality?"
"Bill paying, wage earning required life?"
"It sounds like time for her to rethink how she moves."
"You as her sister can encourage & support, she has to do the work."
"Good Luck."- Overall-Injury-7620
"NTA."
"It's hypocritical to me for her to enter competitions against other women wanting to be found more beautiful than then and then getting upset that her appearance is being assessed."- CardiologistMean4664
"NTA."
"It honestly sounds like your sister needs therapy."
"She has to be The Most Beautiful Woman, and when some strangers decide not to give her a trophy for being pretty, she cries."
"It's just not going to end well for her."
"She's on track to be an overweight 60-year-old sobbing about how a 20-year-old who can fit into children's sizes got the Most Pretty trophy instead of her."
"Maybe she can find a way to base her self-worth on something other than being judged like a slab of beef."- KnottyKitty
"NTA, your sister is obviously sensitive about her weight, so maybe just apologize to her and tell her you believe she's beautiful."
"Also, probably should keep opinions to yourself in the future (even if asked) as your sister has shown that she's not open to comments /advice."
"If she asks again- turn it around and answer with a question such as…'what do you think you'd like to do?' and then just agree with whatever she says to keep the peace."
"She's not really looking for advice, even if she asks, she's just looking for someone to agree with her."- Mirvb
Others didn't think there was an a**hole in this situation, feeling the OP gave her the honest response she asked for, but understood her sister's reaction to this answer:
"She asked and you answered honestly."
"It's not as if she hadn't competed in plus-sized pageants before your suggestion."
"I would probably encourage her to step back from the pageants."
"Being sad because you lose at a competitive activity is fine, but she's chosen something that, unless she can adjust her expectations, will only continue to chip away at her self-esteem."
"NAH."- Cappa_Cail
"NAH, assuming you phrased it kindly."
"You meant well, but she didn't really want advice in that moment, she probably knows the pageant world better than you do (and can thus find a new lane if she wants to), and it's a very fraught/sensitive issue."
"So it makes sense that it hit her in a way that hurt."
"Again, assuming you were kind and genuinely meant well, I think you can just apologize and let her know that you'll support her in whatever she decides to do."- harbjnger
Pageants are essentially all about image, and since pageants seem to be the thing the OP's sister cares about more than anything, it's understandable why she would react the way she did over a remark about her image.
That being said, it does seem that the OP wasn't trying to be hurtful in any way, but was essentially highlighting where her sister was excelling.
At the end of the day, however, it's hard to argue with those who feel that the OP's sister might want to reserve her questions for a professional, and not the OP, moving forward.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp