Some people love all human babies, finding them all adorable. Other people, not so much.
For those people, there are ugly babies in the world. Baby lovers don't understand this and can't see it.
Of course, telling a baby, or anyone around them, that they're an ugly baby is rude. But what if they still find out?
Are apologies needed? Does it depend on how they found out.
A sibling whose sister has an ugly baby turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no official voting acronyms and no final judgment given.
Uglybaby101 asked:
"AITAH for 'saying' that my sister's baby is ugly?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"So my sister (28, female) and I (24, female) are currently living with our parents. She just recently had a baby with her boyfriend (27, male)."
"I (secretly) think that the baby is the most hideous thing that I've ever seen. It looks like an unholy union between Churchill, Putin, a monkey, and a potato."
"I also can't lie to save my life, so whenever I'm in a social situation where I'm expected to fawn over the baby, I say that it looks just like my sister."
"Note that these are thoughts and not words that I would ever say out loud. I did, however, write these thoughts down in my DIARY."
"Unfortunately, my family in general has no concept of privacy or respect for personal boundaries. If I leave my laptop unattended and unlocked, they will absolutely snoop."
"Our parents replaced the lockable doorknobs to our rooms with unlockable ones. I've caught my mom red handed reading a former diary of mine that I'd previously thrown in the dumpster of our then apartment complex."
"I burn my old journals out of necessity, and my current one has a very strong lock and is kept hidden."
"Yes, I've explained countless times how much it hurts me when they snoop. No, they don't care; they think that I'm being silly and are generally dismissive."
"I made the mistake of leaving my diary unattended and unlocked to use the restroom last week. My sister walked into my room without permission 'to borrow scissors', spotted my diary, and promptly started reading."
"Upon reading my entry on my thoughts about her baby, she blew up. My sister is hurt and furious that I think that her baby is ugly."
"She called me a b*tch and a mean girl and won't speak to me. She also thinks that I was giving her a backhanded compliment when I compared her to her baby."
"My parents are demanding that I apologize to her."
"I don't feel sorry at all. Yeah, saying that baby isn't cute is socially unacceptable, but those were my thoughts, not my actions or words, and you don't pry into someone's INNERMOST THOUGHTS and not expect to hear some things that were better left unsaid."
"If anything, she should be apologizing to ME for violating my privacy, though she wouldn't be caught dead doing it."
"AITA?"
The OP later added:
"This has come up a few times, so the reason why I live at home is due to the economy/financial savings. My parents don't charge rent (so long as you aren't unemployed or not in school), utility bills, groceries, and I can get the family plan for insurance."
"It's definitely a poisoned chalice, but it would take me ~9 years to save up for a downpayment living by myself vs just 3 years at home."
"What's tolerable (not acceptable) is also different to people who have dysfunctional parents (though that's irrelevant to this story)."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not in the wrong (NTA).
"NTA. Some babies are just ugly."
"Plus your family members are a**holes for reading your diary without permission." ~ Impossible-Baker8067
"Tell her that if she wants your honest opinion you'll give it to her, she doesn't need to snoop in your diary to find out. It's the most outrageous breach of trust to read someone else's journal."
"I always tell people if they need to journal, do it online with a password and 2FA protection."
"My mother kept a journal all her life. None of us ever snooped. When she died, Dad insisted we burned them unread, and I agreed."
"There were probably lovely things in there, but almost certainly horrors as well. Both of us agreed that if she had wanted her private thoughts known, she'd have let us read them."
"And yes, most babies are a potato crossed with Churchill. They do grow out of that stage, but as you did we all go 'what a cute baby' and think 'Damn, that's one ugly a** baby'." ~ Adelucas
"You did not go and tell her this. She invaded your privacy. Your sister is an AH. People have free will and thoughts." ~ OkCharity3133
"NTA. Pretty much all babies look like Lyndon Johnson. Honestly, I would just laugh in your sister's face and tell her she got what she deserved for snooping." ~ EddieSevenson
"NTA. Tell her, 'I'm sorry you didn't like what you read in my diary. However I would appreciate it if you'd leave my private journal alone so I don't have to censor my PRIVATE THOUGHTS in case someone might snoop. Thank you'."
"That is the only apology that they would hear from me. If you don't want to piss them off even more, you should rethink that, but for me the only one in need of receiving an apology is you."
"I would be so pissed about that whole situation. Your journal is absolutely none of their business and if she didn't like what she read there, it's her own fault. And some babies are just ugly." ~ Nicknamewastoolong
"All newborns look weird af when they're born and I learned in the hospital a lot of medical staff fib to parents about their baby being cute."
"When I had my daughter, so many medical staff would go 'aww cute!' Then they'd look at me and go 'but like, actually cute' in this very conspiratorial way.
"NTA. Also D*ck move on her part nosing into your private sh*t." ~ Curious-Scholar4692
"Old saying: Ugly at cradle, pretty at table. I was so ugly as a newborn that my mother cried to my dad that he wouldn't love me because I was so ugly."
"Lots of babies are ugly. Tell your family, 'Don't snoop if you don't want to be offended'. NTA." ~ Maorine
"NTA. Tell them, 'no, I'm not going to apologize for saying it, because I did not say it. I wrote that down in my private diary. Where sister snooped without permission. If she doesn't like my private thoughts, then she shouldn't have looked in my diary! I have nothing to apologize for, as she was the one who violated my space. She got what she got, maybe she will think twice before reading diaries in the future'." ~ kkfluff
"NTA. I have always said, 'those who eavesdrop on others' conversations. Deserve to hear bad things about themselves'."
"This also applies to those who snoop and others' journals. They deserve to read bad things about themselves."
"Don't apologize. Remind sister that she snooped on purpose. A decent person would've ignored an open journal or laptop. And she is obviously not a decent person and a terrible sister to violate your privacy." ~ Cali_Holly
"Aren't all babies kinda ugly? Like poop scented potatoes." ~ NarwhalTakeover
"Is it too late to say you put that in there on purpose to test whether she'd snoop and what do you know, it worked? I'd rather do that than apologize to her for something she did wrong." ~ SnooPets8873
"My baby came out looking absolutely adorable, and the nurses were losing their sh*t because genuinely cute newborns are so rare. My nephew came out looking like an angry potato hit with a shovel."
"My niece looked like a pig and a monkey had some seriously hateful sex. Not every baby is beautiful. They get cuter with age."
"Beyond all of that, your family sounds exhausting and toxic. If you have the ability to, I'd strongly encourage you to distance yourself for a bit. Maybe move out. NTA." ~ MochiPryncess
"NTA. But if I lived in a place like that, I wouldn't even write a journal at all and keep my thoughts locked away in the only place no one can snoop: my head."
"Such violation of privacy isn't normal. I hope you can move out soon because, honestly, you're an adult woman. You have a right to want some privacy. Such terrible people to live with..."
"By the way, you actually had me laughing with your description of the baby. Even if you were my sister and it would be my baby I wouldn't even feel offended about that description, everyone knows not every baby is pretty." ~ TitleKind3932
"I'd apologize, telling her, 'I'm sorry you just found out your baby is ugly. I honestly thought you knew since everyone has been saying it since they were born'." ~ MohawMais
Invading someone's private thoughts is a dangerous place for a person's ego to go. If they're unprepared for what they might find, they probably shouldn't go there.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp