The best thing about having a friend is the ability to be candid with them.
That we can share our honesty, unadulterated opinions with them, without a lick of judgement.
That being said, sometimes we may realize too late that we don't know our friends quite as well as we think we do.
And as such, our candid opinion on some things might shock them or rub them the wrong way.
Redditor Zealousideal_Pen8983 was recently enjoying a candid conversation with a close friend.
When the topic shifted towards being about the original poster (OP)'s mother, the OP was less than appreciative of what their friend had to say.
And the OP did not hide her unhappiness with her friend's remarks.
After their friend accused them of being too "reactive", the OP took to the subReddit "Am I The A**hole" (AITA), where they asked fellow Redditors:
"AITA for being upset that my friend essentially called my mom a bad person for looking older than her age?"
The OP explained why they found themselves at odds with their friends:
"My friend (18 F[emale]) came to my house for a spa day."
"As my mom was bringing us popcorn and face masks, my friend started talking about how she believes people's insides begin to match their outsides in middle and old age."
"She said wrinkles are the result of frowning and holding your face in negative expressions, so if you look older than your age, it's typically due to living a life of negativity and hate."
"Right as my mom walked away, she asked me, 'How old is your mom?'"
"I answered and she said 'she looks much older'."
"'Her glabellar lines and age spots seem more like those of a woman in her sixties'."
"I said 'are you calling my mom a b*tch because she has wrinkles?'"
"She said no, that it's just an observation."
"I said my mom has survived several life-threatening illnesses in the past ten years, which tends to affect the appearance, and that I find her comments disgusting."
"She said I need to calm down because it's not that deep, and that it's hard being friends with me because I'm so reactive."
"AITA for thinking she's calling my mom a bad person?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in on where they believed the OP fell in this particular situation, by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
The Reddit community unanimously agreed that the OP was not the a**hole for calling out their friend.
Everyone agreed that the OP had every right to call out her friend, agreeing that not only were their friend's comments insensitive, but also ageist:
"NTA."
"Your friend's a rude child."
"Well done for speaking up for your mum."
"Keep doing that."- Ma-Hu
"NTA."
"Your friend is a shallow person who only sees people's outward appearance."
"On top of badmouthing your mom, she also minimized your reaction."
"Pretty unpleasant person to be around if you ask me."- No-Tie-526
"NTA."
"How do you get to be 18 years old and believe sh*t like that?"- Linkcott18
"NTA."
"Your mom made you guys snacks, and she repaid her by insulting her appearance behind her back."
"Then she tried to gaslight you."
"Your mom will always be a beautiful person because she survived these illnesses, cares for others and supports you."
"Your friend is ugly because she is manipulative and rude. It is only going to get worse."
"Dump her as a friend."- WelderOk9617
"NTA."
"She actually finds it hard to be friends with you because you hold."
"She's accountable for the things she says."- JustSort6370
"NTA."
"If someone said something like that about my Mom - especially when she's had a stressful time and challenging health issues - they would be an ex-friend so fast their head would spin."
"Your 'friend' is rude and your Mom doesn't deserve that when all she's been is kind."-SleepDeprivedMummy
"NTA."
"Tell your 'friend' that she has the personality of a disease, so she's gonna look ugly very young if she doesn't change her tune."
"And BTW, smiling and laughing gives wrinkles."
"They're literally called 'laughter lines' so your friend is full of sh*t and either incredibly dumb or seems to be making a pointed jab at your mom."
"Send your friend this post thread."
"Might wake her up a bit."- unicornhair1991
"NTA."
"Give your friend a few years and see how she looks."
"Then she can comment."
"Saying that about your mother was rude, so good for you for pushing back."- RevRos
"NTA."
"Kick that 'friend' and her judgmental attitude to the curb."
"She disrespected your mom in her own home."
"Girl needs to keep her mouth shut and keep her nastiness to herself."
"She may have been there for a spa day, but she brought her ugly attitude with her."-Radiant_Ad_9912
"NTA."
"She is ageist, judgmental, and spouting things she knows very little about."- ServelanDarrow
"NTA."
"I sure as Hell hope your mother didn't hear that."
"Due to health reasons, I've probably aged 10 years in two."
"To hear someone say something like I must be a hateful/hate-filled, unhappy person would be devastating, as nothing is further from the truth."
"You need to drop this shallow friend."- Shadow4summer
"'It's not that deep'."
"Girl, you're the one saying if you look old early, it's only because you're mean and hateful."
"Not anyone else's fault, you were dumb and forgot stress and medical conditions exist, lmao."
"NTA, and my petty ass would start asking if she has a weird mascara line at the edge of her eyes, or is it the start of crows' feet."
"I cannot stand people who assume wrinkles and/or white hair mean that a woman is less-than."
"They never say this shit about men, too."- Donequis
"NTA."
"Good job for speaking up for your mom."
"Honestl,y that 'observation' was so uncalled for and sounds like your friend read it somewhere and made that their whole personality."- Pseudonymous_Alien
"NTA."
"You'll find that if you decide to be just as rude about your friend's mum, all of a sudden your friend will be upset and would be annoyed if you brushed it off as not that deep."
"Sometimes people like this need a mirror in order to see what's wrong."
"Other times they're just arseholes and not really your friend."
"It's up to you to figure out which it is, but it's better to do it sooner rather than later."-HungryTeap0t
"NTA."
"Your friend has a lot to learn about life and the people living it."
"I hope your mom is doing well now."- PrairieGrrl5263
"NTA."
"You're not 'too reactive'."
"You're reacting perfectly normal for this situation."
"If someone looked at my grandma and told me, 'Yeah, she looks a lot older than she actually is', right after telling me that a person's true nature starts showing later in life, that person would be getting dropped immediately."- maybebaebea
"NTA."
"If she starts that again, you might want to remind her that by her own guidelines she can expect to be staring at warts and wrinkles before she's 35."- FloatingPencil
"NTA."
"She's right it's not that deep - she's just a sh*tty human being."
"Time to find friends who don't insult people for their appearance."- Gloomy_Ruminant
"NTA it obviously is that deep if she feels the need to preach such rubbish."
"As a mum who has gone through two very hard surgeries this year, if my kids had a friend who said this to them they'd be exactly the same as you OP."
"And the friend would be an ex-friend."
"So good for you for sticking up for your mum."
"Your mum has raised a wonderful daughter with you, so don't change."
"Love to your mum and glad she has made it through."
"So what if she has a few wrinkles? They're all part of our journey through life."
"I have a fair few scars now and I don't mind them at all, I'm quite proud of them."
"Without them, I most probably wouldn't still be here."- Floofieunderpants
"NTA but you need a new friend."- Jdawn82
"Your friend is misinformed."
"She got a stupid theory from some dimwitted influencer and considers it Gospel."
"NTA, take her 'advice' with a truckload of salt."- Low-Television-7508
"NTA, although I'm not 100% sure whether your friend is just a plain old AH or also tremendously stupid."
"I hope your mom didn't hear how rude this AH was - first by speaking condescendingly about your mother and then by doubling down on her rudeness and even trying to turn it on you by pretending you're overreacting."
"I also hope spa day was cancelled for this AH and you threw her out straight away."
"Once and for all."
"It's certainly not you who's hard to be friends with."- RiverSong_777
It's entirely possible that the OP's friend didn't entirely mean what she said, and this was just another one of those unfortunate cases of speaking before thinking.
Even so, the OP was doing this friend a favor by telling her how her remarks came off.
Hopefully leading this friend to keep some of her thoughts and ideas to herself going forward...
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp