Parents and teachers have been doing a lot of clashing these last few years.
Who knew children's school assignments could become so divisive?
It's amazing that any educating even gets done.
But very passionate parents can't help but speak their mind.
Redditor StopLookingAtMyColon wanted to discuss their experience and get some feedback, so naturally, they came to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subreddit.
They asked:
"A[ll]-I[n]-O[ne] Teacher said my daughter's report is 'immoral'?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"So my 9-year-old daughter has an assignment every year where they embody a historical figure of significance."
"She looks forward to this every year, and she really gets into picking her figure out and learning about them."
"They're supposed to pick three people, then the teacher chooses which of the three they can do."
"This year, my daughter chose Freddie Mercury, Prince, and Anne of Cleves."
"Today, the teacher messaged me saying that Freddie Mercury and Prince aren't acceptable because they weren't 'moral' people."
"And Anne of Cleves isn't acceptable because she didn't make enough of an impact on the world."
"For reference, last year my daughter was Frida Kahlo, and the year before she was Josephine Baker."
"I prepared a big, long response about how morality is subjective, every human is complex and not wholly moral or immoral, my family doesn't believe in judging other people's morality, and that choosing a 'moral' person wasn't even a condition as part of the assignment."
"But then my husband came home and found me seething, and he thinks I'm overreacting and this isn't a fight worth fighting."
The OP was left to wonder:
"So… am I overreacting? Or should I stand my ground?"
Redditors shared their thoughts on this matter and weighed in on some options to the question:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors declared that OP was NOT the A**hole.
"NAH, you're not overreacting at all, that teacher is being super inconsistent here."
"If Frida Kahlo and Josephine Baker were fine, then suddenly Freddie and Prince are 'too immoral'… what are we doing lol."
"I'd absolutely push back, politely but firmly, and ask for the actual written criteria, because it sounds like the teacher is just imposing their personal values instead of following the assignment." ~ Significant_Cold8386
"Freddie Mercury donated to charity all the time... especially AIDS charities."
"Prince also donated millions to charities."
"What is this teacher on???" ~ Mountain-Exam8871
"N[ot] O[ver]R[eacting] - I'd die on this hill for my child."
"This teacher would never know what's coming."
"All of my corporate experience of escalating to supervisors, passive-aggressive emails, etc would come out to STAND ON F**KING BUSINESS!!"
"Also, this 4th-grade teacher is taking their job way too seriously." ~ EmpoweRED21
"NOR, this is the person who teaches and shapes your child's future."
"You absolutely have every right to question and challenge them when there's something wrong or inappropriate, in this case, the teacher being a homophobic, racist POS." ~ VixiFox
"And what lesson would it send OP's daughter to just sit back and take it?"
"I wonder if the teacher is a male, in which case they wouldn't even know what hit them if it were me."
"I would possibly even consider switching one character for a female who stood up to a male who tried to dim their light and get them to follow the status quo."
"The lesson to be learned here by the daughter in standing up for herself is far greater than what OP's husband thinks, and honestly, if my husband reacted that way, we'd be having words too.'
"My husband would get his own report as to why he was wrong in this case." ~ betterupsetter
"Definitely not overreacting."
"Just be sure to keep it professional and to the point; making it into an argument or problem may have negative impacts on your child when they're in that classroom."
"If the teacher isn't open to a respectful conversation with you, then it may be worth going over their head and speaking to the principal."
"The teacher's job is to teach, to inspire, not to dictate to others their own beliefs, be it moral or otherwise."
"It may be the teacher's classroom, but that excuse only goes so far; that teacher is committing, and overreaching, and their enforcement of personal moral beliefs shouldn't be allowed." ~Smiglldorf
"You're not overreacting; those choices are historically significant, and 'morality' is a slippery, subjective standard."
"It's reasonable to ask the teacher to clarify or reconsider, especially since that wasn't part of the assignment." ~ WeddingGlittering643
"NOR. Ask the teacher in writing why exactly Freddy mercury and Prince weren't moral people." ~ Diligent-Draft6687
"Freddie and Prince were very moral characters."
"They were fiercely loyal friends and gave a lot to charity behind the scenes."
"Anne of Cleves was fascinating as she had a close relationship with Henry, and he called her 'his beloved sister.'"
"I suspect the teacher knows nothing of history and wants some boring essay on George Washington." ~ Adelucas
"NOR - when I was in 7th grade, at a Catholic grade school, I picked up The Exorcist from the local library."
"Brought it home and was reading it, so I brought it to school and read during recess."
"My teachers lost it."
"Called my mom and dad."
"They had to come to school again to discuss my behavior."
"My dad didn't say a word, which was odd, but my mom said we don't believe in telling our kids what they can and can't read."
"He is smart enough to understand the book, has talked extensively with his uncle, who is a priest about exorcisms, and he is going to finish the book - either at home, school, or both."
"They wouldn't let me keep the book at school, but my mom standing up for me meant a ton."
"My dad, when I got home that night, explained why he was silent - he said she was so pissed off, he knew someone had to be calm and was ready to step in to calm the situation down." ~ mjstl2
"My son did Henry Ford, and we discovered he was a notorious anti-Semite."
"He was also a cruel man who was terrible to his family."
"Yet he was 'moral' enough for an 8th grader to spend a few weeks on."
"Adding morality to historical figures is nonsensical." ~ utootired
"OP, no matter how this turns out with the teacher ( would write a letter to the school board and the state superintendent of schools, depending on your state, of course), I think your daughter is amazing!"
"Please relay to her that she is my hero for her intelligence and her discernment in choosing her subjects."
"The kid is ahead of the teacher, definitely in morality." ~ Bit*hee62
OP came back with an Update...
"Info: it is a private school, but it's not religious."
"This teacher is brand new and just started after Thanksgiving."
"We live in northern Nevada."
"It's a school-wide assignment, so the teacher didn't make it up."
"Every class does it every year, it's like a tradition."
"They switch it up for the grades, like kindergarten draws a picture of their person while 8th grade does a several-page report."
"[UPDATE] I'm not sure why the post got locked."
"But thanks everyone for your support and input!"
"There is a resolution, but it's pretty anti-climactic."
"I emailed the teacher back, here's what I said: 'I'm sorry, but the assignment was a historical figure of significance.'"
"'Morality is subjective.'"
"'And if you think Anne of Cleves didn't make a big enough contribution to history, maybe hearing a report about her is just what you need!'"
"'I'd like to ask you to reconsider and choose from the list ____ provided.'"
"'She thought about each figure long and hard, and she's very excited to share about them with her classmates.'"
"I also emailed the principal with my concerns."
"Here's that email: 'Hi Mrs. _____ Today Mrs. _____ messaged me that she didn't approve of any of _____'s choices for Chautauqua for reasons that I feel are inappropriate.'"
"'She said that Freddie Mercury and Prince were both not 'moral people.'"
"'I find this problematic for several reasons:'"
"'It's not a teacher's responsibility to judge or encourage a student to judge a person's morality.'"
"'I try hard to teach my children not to pass judgment on people, so it bothers me that her teacher is encouraging her to do just that.'"
"'A person's vices aren't something that would be in a third grader's assignment to begin with.'"
"'She specifically told _____ that both of them are 'rockstars' who used drugs and had 'loose morals' which is actually not even true.'"
"'Prince was vehemently against drug and alcohol use and was very religious.'"
"'But regardless, it's wildly inappropriate to assume _____'s report would include a section about how Freddie Mercury liked to party and his drug of choice. Please.'"
"'The objective of the assignment is to showcase people of influence, not morality.'"
"'With ____'s last choice, Anne of Cleves, she told ____ that she wasn't well known enough.'"
"'I would argue that's a perfect reason why ____ should do a report on her: to highlight her influence.'"
"'I messaged her back and asked her to reconsider, because ____ was pretty disappointed when she came home.'"
"'But beyond making her unhappy, I still thought I should tell you my concerns. Thank you, ______'"
"So the big finale: the teacher messaged me back with this: 'I have talked with Administration about Chautauqua. We have decided that students may choose any of their choices.'"
"'Please let me know which character you have decided on as soon as possible.'"
"So yeah. I'm glad this is the resolution because I'm not usually one to rock the boat."
"Oh, and I also had a talk with my daughter about how sometimes teachers can be wrong and that it's okay to question the rules if we don't agree with them."
"We also talked about what 'loose morals' means, that people who have different beliefs are not bad or good people, that drug use doesn't shape a person's entire character, and that she did nothing wrong."
"We also discussed possibly choosing a different person just in case."
It's great to hear that there was a resolution, OP.
You stood your ground, and it paid off.
Reddit was on your side no matter what.
All three choices sound like fun.
Tell your daughter to have a great time.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp