TW: Mental health, child endangerment
Forgiveness is a common trait among families and close friends.
What happens though when someone crosses a line too large to ignore?
That was the issue facing Redditor and Original Poster (OP) Alarmed-Wolverine when she came to the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for judgment.
She asked:
"AITA? I found out my sister is pretending to be my daughter's mother"
OP began with some history.
"When my (27 Female) fiancé and I first announced my pregnancy to my family, my sister (34F) was a little jealous."
"I'm assuming it's because she was trying for a baby with her ex-partner but they broke up because he was a cheat."
She continued with fantastic news.
"I gave birth to my daughter seven months ago."
"Her name is Kaia."
"When I returned to work after 12 weeks of maternity leave, my sister offered to babysit Kaia once a week which has been incredibly helpful."
Everything was fine, until...
"Not too long ago, one of my close friends who also recently had a child approached me to tell me that my sister is in a mothers group on Facebook and she's posting photos of Kaia and she's calling my daughter HERS and she's also calling her by a different name."
"My friend sent me screenshots of my sister's posts and I was completely disturbed so I spoke to my fiancé and we both decided we had to take action immediately."
"I went over to my sister's and asked her directly about what she was posting on Facebook, she did not deny it and also had no explanation."
"Therefore I told her that she's banned from seeing my daughter."
"My sister flipped out and said that I can't take Kaia away from her and then called me a 'selfish b*tch' and she started crying."
"I have NEVER seen my sister act this way before, it was alarming."
"I ask her if there's anything else I need to know because she may as well just spill everything, so she shows me a framed photo she has in her bedroom of her and my daughter and on the frame is written 'mother and daughter.'"
"I'm not going to lie, I did call her crazy and then I left and haven't spoken to her since, although she continues to try and come over and calls me multiple times a day."
"My mind is an absolute mess."
OP was left to wonder,
"I don't know where we go from here. AITA for how I handled the situation?"
Having explained the situation, OP turned to Reddit for judgment.
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided: NTA
Posters thought there might be deeper problems.
"NTA but it sounds like your sister has some serious psychological issues and needs professional help asap."
"It will probably be safer for everyone to keep your daughter away from her and you may want to install a home security system as well as inform any other caregivers that your sister does not have privileges regarding being around her."
"This type of thing is a HUGE red flag for mental health issues. If you can, you may want to encourage her to get help." ~ LRose1825
"NTA -agreed with the above poster, OP's sister is screaming for mental health help here."
"The framed picture, the name change, it's all way too much to say 'it's just a phase'".
"You're absolutely right for avoiding any interaction between your child and your sister OP."
"Strongly recommend having a discussion to get her help especially since you mentioned she's never behaved like this before." ~ BrownSugarBare
"Mental health concerns can rear its ugly head in so many different ways, she could have been perfectly fine with her relationship ending but you're right, seeing the shiny new baby and the what ifs in life start niggling in your brain and unleash a lot." ~ BrownSugarBare
Others were concerned for the daughter's safety.
"Are you kidding?"
"It's a HUGE red flag in childcare, too! Most missing children are taken by someone they know. OP's sis seems like she's grooming the kid to abduct her." ~ Vaidurya
"This!!!"
"If the sister was allowed continual access despite this, she could easily just take the daughter and disappear."
"I agree with the other's that this is also a mental health issue and she should get treatment."
"But don't let that stop you from being firm and taking care of YOUR daughter."
"I would also invest in security systems and telling anyone who has access to your daughter that your sister is not allowed near her or even in the same building as her."
"For those that are watching her (daycare, etc.) Include a photo in case the sister does go crazy and tries to take the kid with an alias."
"Also if necessary ask them to call you for confirmation if either you or your husband isn't the one picking up the daughter." ~ Anisole1419
There were also, sadly, personal stories.
"My brothers dad (same mom different dads) tried to kidnap my brother as an infant."
"The only reason he didn't get away with it is his brother (I think it was) told my parents that he packed all his things and wasn't coming back so do not give him the baby."
"That guy was absolutely a sh*tty guy who also abused me." ~ HufflepuffPrincess7
"My dad did kidnap me as a toddler."
"I was missing for a year because he hid me with virtual strangers. He didn't take me because he wanted time with me, he did it to punish my mother."
"OP, don't take this lightly. If your sister refuses intensive therapy, get that restraining order." ~ JaydeRaven
Some felt this needed to be escalated to higher authorities.
"I think OP should get a restraining order its clear her sister is unhinged and will pull something off around the kid." ~ GoldenBoy3332
"And let the local mom group know that she made fraudulent claims about having a child that actually isn't hers. They need to know too." ~AntComfortable
"If she can find the pictures, she can report them to Facebook as being used without her permission."
"That actually works better because the sis may have posted the pics in several groups." ~ squeakylittlecat
While her privacy remained a concern, there were larger concerns for some.
"It doesn't need to be public, but she should definitely tell whoever moderates the Facebook group so they can take the posts down and block her sister from making any more posts about 'her' daughter." ~ TestTubeRagdoll
"Yes, this."
"She's clearly not fit to be around children, period."
"Don't let other mothers believe she's a normal healthy person, cause before u know it somebody will look for a babysitter and oh, theres the 'mother' from the group im in who im getting along with, maybe she can watch my kid."
"No. No she can not, she should not be anywhere near kids at all."
"This is not normal behaviour in the slightest."
"Mental health issues is tricky."
"But her reputation rn is not more important than the safety of kids around her."
"If she's gotten close to other parents with young kids or babies, they need to know what kind of risk they're getting themselves involved with unless she seeks serious therapy asap."
"If she haven't made any contacts, then just banning her from the group would be enough as she'd be forgotten pretty quickly." ~ somerandomgod
"The child's welfare is paramount here."
"There's a way to alert the group -- on FB, parents' groups, whatever -- without embarrassing the sister."
"But being gentle with the sister at this point isn't kindness. It's jeopardizing the safety of this little girl." ~ Jonny-Pasadena
This post seemed to hit all the salient points.
"NTA"
"Protect your child."
"Your sister is creepy and delusional."
"She needs therapy."
"It would have only been a matter of time before she decided she is the real mother and tried to steal your baby."
"Left to her own devices, she would intrude upon your relationship with your daughter, and undermine it."
"Actually naming your child some other name!?"
"Wow. That is scary."
"I would consider a restraining order on her."
"That is not normal. It isn't loving or kind either, no matter what she claims. It's obsessive and delusional."
"See if you, or someone who knows her, can get screen shots of her insane posts, as evidence."
"You might need therapy too, to process this trauma. What a terrifying experience! Yikes!"
"Also, be prepared to have your family try to demonize you for protecting your child. Do not back down. A therapist will help you do that."
"**edited to add. She is showing up at your house multiple times a day to stalk your baby."
"Get a restraining order, yesterday."
"Get security cameras too, and make sure you cut off all 3rd party contact between your sister and your baby."
"Make sure the other caregivers know to call the police immediately if she shows up." ~ Ragingredblue
Forgiveness is a powerful tool that can be useful in bringing disparate parties together and for building new roads over troubled ground.
Sometimes, though, it isn't necessarily the best - or safest - position to take.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp