Your friendship may look different from either side of the relationship. To you, it may be a general friendliness. To them it might be something more.
Redditor Ok_Muscle4328 has some differences of opinion with his friend and their relationship. The original poster (OP) is moving out and it's causing some issues.
OP thinks he might be wrong for how he reacted, but isn't sure. He decided to ask the "Am I the A**hole" (AITA) subReddit about his problem moving out.
And what went down between OP and his friend.
"AITA for going off on my roommate in front of her son?"
What did OP say to his friend?
"I 25M(ale) live/lived with my roommate 'G' 28F(emale) and her son 'H' 13 for 4 years. When I moved in I made it clear that I have school and work I need to focus on and that I wouldn't be available to help out much with her son but that if she needed a sitter or a break and I was available I'd try."
"I and H got along well. I've been told numerous times that he sees me as a role model and a father figure and I've as kindly as possible, explained that this made me uncomfortable. I'm not a role model."
"I guess G hadn't gotten the memo because she went on a tangent about him looking up to me, she's asked me to stop smoking (cigarettes, I don't do drugs at the home) and to stop swearing."
"I told her that I pay rent as well and I'm allowed to smoke in my room on my balcony. I would respect her wishes and not cuss in front of him if I could help it."
"I started seeing 'A' 23F last October and we decided to plan to move in together (things are going super well). G has started treating me differently saying that I'm risking a lot for someone I hardly know and that H will be heartbroken to find out I'm replacing him."
"I've tried to be civil but I've just resorted to grey rocking her because it's gotten to be a lot. A and I are in the moving stage of things and we were moving out of my room this weekend."
"G sent H into my room to tell me that he was sad I was leaving. I told him I was too, but that I was headed to the next step in my life and that I was excited to start this journey."
"He cried a little and hugged me and said he's gonna miss me but that's he's happy with me and for me. I then gave him some of my old games and my old PS4 so we could game together online."
"He went and showed his mom and she came into the room calling me a dick and saying that gifts weren't gonna make things better and that I'm just walking out of his life and treating him like nothing after so long. She said he damn near grew up with me around and that I'm throwing him away for some broad."
"I was fed up and told her to get the f*** over herself and that her kid is more mature than she is. That I'm not his dad and she's not gonna guilt me into staying when I don't want to."
"She started crying and left the house for a couple of hours. H apologized on his mom's behalf and I told him it wasn't his fault and that I wasn't mad at him."
"A thinks it was a little f***ed up of me to go off on her in front of her kid and that I could've said something later. G hasn't spoken to me since then and H said he's just embarrassed about it."
"Some of my friends think I went too far yelling at her in front of her son and that there's a time and a place."
OP is trying to move on with his life, but his soon to be former roommate thinks he should reconsider. Their disagreement evolved into a fight that she thinks he should have kept between them, instead of having it in front of her son.
On the other hand, OP thinks he tried to keep it civil, and the roommate pushed it too far.
On Reddit, the users of the board judged OP for arguing with G in front of her son by including one of the following in their response:
- NTA – Not the A**hole
- YTA – You're the A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everybody Sucks Here
The board considered that OP had really tried to be civil and set boundaries this entire time. It seems like OP is really moving out because of G's consistent invalidation of his limits.
So when G tries to make OP's relationship with H into something it isn't, it's natural he'd get upset. And if G wanted to keep things quiet in front of her son, she should have listened to OP from the start.
OP was judged to be NTA for blowing up on G in front of her son.
"NTA. And honestly I don't think it's that bad that you did it in front of her 13-year-old teen. It might even help him understand the nuances of friendship and father figures that are not fathers."
"The fact that you gave him the PS4 and will be playing games online with him probably stuck with him far more than this fight between you and his mom." - EggandSpoon42
"NTA it sounds like your relationship with H is exactly as it should be, a trusted adult in his life. It's unfair of your roommate to expect you to indefinitely live with them with your life on hold." - Flat_Lengthiness_319
"Yeah, NTA at all. Roommate seems super weird and out of touch with reality, or just very entitled."
"OP and roommate were just that…roommates. It seemed as if OP's roommate was in some sort of delusional fantasy that she could somehow guilt OP into being a permanent father figure for this child, when he had no involvement in creating the kid or had any previous romantic relationship with her either."
"The fact that OP ever agreed to change his behavior, be there for her son and babysit shows he went wayyyy above and beyond already." - Dauntless-One
"you're so sweet, NTA. You're right that there's a time and a place, but it's literally your apartment, so it is your place, and she started the confrontation, so it is the time." - sentienthammer
"NTA."
"You handled it with the kid excellently, and your old roommate saw her manipulation tactic failed, so she decided to confront you in front of her son. If she didn't want you to react in front of her son, she shouldn't have started that conversation in front of her son."
"You made no promises to stay there forever, and you didn't adopt that kid. It was nice of you to give him the system and tell him you'd still play online with him."
"I think you handled it as well as you could have, given the circumstances of the confrontation." - jammy913
However, not everyone was so quick to write off what happened. While no one really disagreed that OP was wrong, they did think it was important to look at the relationship between G and OP.
OP set very clear boundaries and continued to reinforce them, but G kept acting like OP was something he wasn't.
Is it possible G thought this was going somewhere it didn't?
"NTA"
"My guess would be that G had either grown attached to you, was using you as a surrogate father for her child or projecting abandonment issues with her child's father on to you."
"None of those are your issue though." - mdthomas
"NTA: Though, I do think that G might have romantic feelings for you, hence why she blew up at you." - reddustrose
"This was 100% my thought too. She had a man in the house who was polite to her and her son, helped pay the bills, and seemed like a good guy."
"Now that he's leaving, she feels like her 'partner' is leaving her and feels a certain way about him that isn't normal in this situation." - crystallz2000
"NTA."
"What did she expect? You literally said you didn't feel comfortable with being a role model or father figure to her son. That should have been the end of it."
"Seems like she was trying to force you into a father role, and then guilt you when you began moving on with your life. You are right, her son was more mature."
"I'm honestly curious if she thought something romantic would bloom between the two of you, especially since her son liked you? Idk." - ThrowAwayCatBalloon
The final decision was that OP wasn't wrong, and H handled the situation well. G needs to look at her expectations and realize she shouldn't put these kinds of ideas on someone who didn't want them.
OP wasn't going to always be around, and G needs to accept that.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp