Content Warning: Struggles with Infertility, Pregnancy Complications, Cheating, Affair Partner
It's true that it takes two people to cheat and to break up a marriage.
But that doesn't make the cheating spouse, or their affair partner, any less of a bad person when there's a marriage at stake, pointed out the members of the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITAH) subReddit, and they both deserve to be blamed for their actions.
Redditor Meggsyxio had no respect for her ex-husband or his affair partner after they knowingly compromised her marriage, and she gave both of them as little attention as possible.
But when the affair partner belittled and taunted the Original Poster (OP) for years, she finally decided to say something hurtful enough to the affair partner to make her question everything.
She asked the sub:
"AITAH for throwing my ex-husband's words in his affair partner wife's face after she spent the last five years taunting me?"
The OP's ex-husband tried to win her back throughout the entire divorce process.
"I (33 Female) found out my ex-husband (35 Male) and the father of my two kids (11 and 9) was cheating on me with Dana (30 Female), who he worked with."
"Once I kicked my ex out, he did everything to try and win me back."
"He even shared the fact that Dana was sterile and was just some safe fun because he knew he couldn't get her pregnant. He said he would never actually want something (not someone) like that, and he loved me and our kids."
"I was having none of it."
"I didn't pity Dana, either, because she knew about me. We had met. She knew about the kids, too. So to me, she was a homewrecker, and I wasn't going to warn her about my ex's feelings toward her."
"My ex continued trying to win me back throughout our divorce. The night before everything was finalized, he sent more texts, begging me to call it all off and let us be a family again."
"It was then that he said more degrading things about Dana."
"But I didn't listen to him. I was done. Even if he wasn't living with Dana (which he already was), I wasn't going to buy that he could or would change."
When the divorce was finalized, Dana thought she had won.
"From the day my ex moved in with Dana, she was smug. She called me all dried up, said my p**sy clearly wasn't tight enough anymore for my ex, and that he clearly felt repulsed by whatever stretch marks the kids left behind."
"I ignored her. She got herself kicked out of the kids' school a few times for using that language in front of others. Twice was in front of one of the teachers during PT conferences."
"For years, I have ignored it and tried to be the bigger person."
"But recently she was extra nasty about me and the fact that I've been single since the divorce."
"She tried to say it was clear no man wanted me, not even the father of my children, and how he thought so little of me. She said he only says nothing because of the kids, but she knows. She knows that's why he went to her."
The OP decided to give Dana a taste of her own medicine.
"So in response, I screenshotted several of the texts my ex sent me where he degraded her, and I told her that she should see what he thinks of her."
'She told me I was sick and twisted, and how dare I dig into her infertility. Then it was, why would I not tell her if any of this were true?"
"I told her I owed her nothing after she knowingly slept with the man I was married to and contributed to the breakup of my children's family."
"I told her I found her as disgusting and repulsive as him."
"But I had done my best to ignore her all these years while she degraded me." Then I told her to look inside her house for all that nasty shit and reminded her to check the dates on the messages."
The OP continued to protect her peace.
"She texted me several times in the aftermath."
"I muted her (I can't block while they're together, because she could be with my kids in an emergency, and the court order states we must keep this access open)."
"So now the plan is to unmute whenever the kids are over there and mute the second they come home to me."
"But AITAH?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought that the ex-husband's new wife's karma had come knocking.
"NTA. She certainly got what she repeatedly asked for. You just gave her the truth. She gets to live with it and deal with it." - Background_System726
"If she keeps it up, just remind her that his mistress position is open now that she's the wife. That ought to shut her up for a little while. NTA." - HerGrinchness
"Every year on your divorce anniversary, you should send her a thank you card with a printout of all the nasty things he said about her, so she remembers who she married."
"Fill the card with glitter, too." - Smooth-Tea7058
"NTA. She's insulted you for how long, and you never said anything? All you did was show her exactly who and what your ex really is. She couldn't possibly think your ex was a good person. He had no problem cheating on the mother of his children." - Vandreeson
"I actually have a cousin who helped other guys cheat on their partners, and she was pretty proud of it."
"I'd be saying, 'You know it's really not okay that you're helping these guys cheat. You know they have partners. Do you not have any empathy?'"
"Her answer? 'I'm not the one cheating. They are. It's not my problem.' It didn't bother her if these guys had girlfriends, were engaged, or married. She just didn't care. Apparently, 'It's not my fault they want me' was a favourite of hers."
"Karma hit her when she was actually with a guy that she was engaged to. Not only did he cheat on her, he was cheating on her with the mother of his four kids, who he was supposed to be divorcing, and with a young woman, who actually didn't know she was the other woman."
"She was much younger than my cousin (like 19, while my cousin was 30), but unlike my cousin, she actually felt terrible about being the other woman, and contacted her."
"Her whole relationship fell apart, and it legit took everything in me not to tell her it was karma for all the relationships she jumped into, while she sat on my mom's couch, crying on my mom's shoulder, wailing, 'What did I do to deserve this?'"
"Karma hits people eventually. Sometimes it just waits for the perfect moment. It'll happen to your ex's affair partner, too. After all, the saying goes, when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy." - LadyBladeWarAngel
Others pointed out that even when the OP said something, she didn't say anything.
"You didn't even say those things. Her man did, so she can take it up with him. NTA." - Ok_Introduction9466
"He is not a prize. He is trash. You are an amazing woman. She did you a favour by picking up your leftovers. Now you have the opportunity to have a relationship with a real man, if you want to." - DefDemi
"Just 'kindly' remind her that he cheated on you, so why would you think he wouldn't do it to her? Get her thinking. Make her nice and paranoid." - AdmiralThunderpants
"You're the love of his life in his twisted head, and he is clearly cruel and does not care about her."
"Men tend to get very cruel when they don't care about you. I guarantee he owned sending the messages and even used them against her like, 'Well, it's true, isn't it? Why are you upset at something that's true? You can't have babies, and you're the reason I lost my wife and family.'"
"I bet that man reminds her every chance she gets that she is second best and ruined his life, and that he doesn't even want her. That's the only reason she goes out of her way to be cruel to OP. She's lashing out the only way id**ts know how, by projecting."
"She isn't even a mean girl. This is straight 'Unknown Number' level of crazy. Like, she doesn't have the good sense to do it privately or discreetly. She's unhinged. Those insults and their consistency are not the actions of a secure woman in a happy relationship. There puzzle pieces to a desperate woman." - unsolicitedPeanutG
"Absolutely NTA."
'If she wants to fight dirty, she'd be foolish not to expect some of it in return. She's pretending she doesn't believe you, but at the very least, you've planted the seed of doubt."
"Deep down, she knows that your ex would go running back to you if you gave him half a chance. It wouldn't hurt to remind her of that next time she gets nasty, and then remind her that she's welcome to your sloppy seconds; that's all she's good for anyway!" - Uglym8s
Though the subReddit could all agree that the OP had technically taken a low blow by sharing this information with the affair partner, it was also true that she herself did not say anything hurtful to her; she only shared messages that her ex-husband sent.
If the new wife wanted to be treated well, the best thing she could have done was seek out a man who treated women well, which was to say, not a man who was willing to cheat on his wife and the mother of his children, but it was too late for that now. She'd made her bed. She could lie in it or leave it.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp