Family traditions serve many purposes for those who continue to hold them.
They might provide a sense of comfort, knowing that you will be surrounded by family doing something you all love every year, month, or even week.
It could also be a way for family members to hold on to the memory of someone gone.
But it should be up to the family to decide whether to continue holding gatherings and honoring traditions in the way they always have.
A woman on Reddit, however, shared her outrage that her brand new brother-in-law tried to shake things up a bit at his second gathering as a family member, so she turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit to seek feedback from fellow Redditors.
Redditor RareSubstance2543 asked:
"AITA for not serving my BIL before the children, causing a huge family fight?"
The Original Poster (OP) explained:
"I(31/f[emale]) am the oldest of 7 with ages ranging from 18-31."
"6 of us have partners/married."
"4 of us have a combined 13 children aging between 2 months and 12 years."
"Our father is still alive but our mother passed away a year ago."
"We are a pretty traditional family in which women stay home to tend to the home, and men go out to work."
"While we have a family ranch where most of us live on the property, and we all pitch in."
"We also have a weekly family dinner at Dad's house."
"I do have to say, because I know someone will bring it up, no, we are not Mormon."
"Now that that's out of the way, I have a new brother-in-law, Dan(23/m[ale])."
"Dan and my sister just recently came back from their honeymoon and have started coming to the family dinners."
"Dan, being the great family man he is, refused to come to any of them before marriage."
"I'm not 100% sure why and I never really cared to know."
"I can't say I really ever liked him, but he had never done anything to cause it."
"So, our last family dinner. We don't put all of the food on the table."
"We have multiple tables so instead, we fix everyone's plates in the kitchen and everyone comes and grabs it as it's fixed."
"As such, we alway fix the kids plates first."
"The first time Dan saw this, he seemed kind of put off by it but didn't say anything."
"The second time it happened, he spoke up and voiced his frustrations, saying the men slave away in the heat all day so they should be served first, that they were hungry."
"MY dad asked him why would a grown man need to eat before his family got fed first."
"This quickly spiraled into an argument after emotions ran high."
"At one point, I finally yelled for everyone to shut up and sit down before telling Dan that until he was the one serving the food, the kids would eat first, and if I had my way, he would be served last at every family event again."
"The dinner ended pretty quickly after, but now I'm starting to wonder if I should have just fixed him a plate to end the argument."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA – Not The A**hole
- YTA – You're The A**hole
- NAH – No A**holes Here
- ESH – Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was not the a**hole.
"No OP, you should not have 'just fixed him a plate to end the argument.'"
"Dan shouldn't have started the argument in the first place, especially at your DAD's house, when your DAD has already told him to quit it!"
"Your response was the right one, including telling Dan that if you had your way, he'd be served last at every family event."
"NTA" - Legal-Challenge7578
"NTA"
"Dan is new to the family and wants to demand changes to family traditions without earning the capital to ask for them."
"He asked, anyway, and in an aggressive way that feels like it bordered on being a demand rather than a request."
"He argued and pushed and made a scene, during which he showed disrespect for your father and for the authority of the women in the kitchen, and in your family, the kitchen is the women's purview."
"He didn't do any of the work related to making or serving dinner but wanted to change the rules to center himself."
"And you stood your ground, as did your father."
"You chastised him--mildly--for his lack of manners, lack of respect, and willingness to disrupt the family meal."
"How could you possibly be the the a**hole here?" - Revolutionary-Dryad
"13 kids under 12 and he wants to feed them last?"
"We always feed the sharks, I mean, the kids before getting food for ourselves if we want to eat in peace" - Procrastination4evr
"Absolutely NTA, individual families do things differently, but I've never been to a family gathering where the kids weren't served first."
"Point being, when you're at your house you do things how you like but when you're at someone else's house you have got to be a real a-hole to demand things be done the way you want them done."
"No one wants drama with family, but sometimes a wake-up call is necessary, and it seems like he was in need of a wake-up call."
"P.s love that your dad was team kids!" - jennic1985
"NTA: Sounds like Dan doesn't have kids… nobody eats if the kids are hungry."
"The kids make sure of it for people who don't know."
"If someone is hungry and complaining, I toss them a fruit so they stfu"
"Children, old folk, woman, man.. that's the order." - Dadbeyondtheglass
"NTA"
"'...we always fix the kids plates first'"
"YOUR family meal, YOUR family's tradition..."
"BiL is a guest and new to the family & needs to show some respect."
"He sounds like an entitled, misogynistic, AH." - rocking_womble
"NTA- sounds like someone left their mind back in the Puritan age."
"'Slave away in the heat...'"
"I'd love to know if he even works outside."
"He needs to stop acting like a big baby, unless that's his motivating for making a case to be fed first with all the other kids." - Alamoraine
"NTA. Even your dad shut down his misogyny."
"Why should you give in 'to keep the peace?'"
"Your BIL should learn how to behave properly in someone else's home."
"Women are not required to serve men when they have their own two hands and legs." - Worth_Chemist_3361
"NTA - Dan had no right to come into a situation that everyone else was comfortable with and demand it change to suit him."
"If he has concerns, he can discuss them with the other adults at a separate time."
"Instead, he behaved like the biggest baby in the room."
"You were right to put him in his place." - Dschingis_Khaaaaan
"NTA. Every family meal was the same in my home."
"The kids were served first, my wife was next, then myself."
"I always made sure everyone was taken care of first so no one would go hungry."
"I knew men who felt the opposite, like Dan, who were only worried about themselves."
"Those men have no problem watching their family starve 'cause they are self-serving egomaniacs."
"Dan will learn that his behavior has now earned himself a smaller portion of food, with no chance of seconds." - messageinthebox
"NTA. Dan is brand-new and an interloper and is pretty bold to demand being served first."
"Your dad, who is the 'head of the household,' said his piece, and that should have been enough."
"If Dan mentions it again, tell him that since he is being childish, he can be served first with the children since it's so important to him - but also tell him he absolutely has to sit at the kid's table for the meal."
"If he wants to sit at the adult table, he can wait for his food with the rest of the grown-ups." - Tree_Chemistry_Plz
"NTA"
"For such a 'family man' he's more self-centred than family centred; your dad nailed it on the head right away."
"Your sister has a tough road ahead."
"Good luck." - SaZaH11
"NTA. Always shut down sexist bullsh*t as soon as it crops up."
"It's good that your dad got involved on your side."
"Keep an eye out for your sister because this behavior is likely 10x worse at her house."
"Honestly the first time I read this, I read that you told him he was now serving the food."
"Honestly, next dinner he should be in charge of cooking and serving the meal and you can focus on something else." - C_Majuscula
"But you didn't start the fight, Dan did."
"He was arrogant and disrespectful."
"As another comment read, don't give in it will only get worse."
"NTA" - Firm-Molasses-4913
"NTA, my wife's family has about 70 people in it."
"When we do family dinners, the kids are always fed first, and then the adults get to fill up a plate."
"Dan sounds like he may have come from a small family where possibly the 'men' of the family get theirs first, and then everyone else gets served…."
"Guess what, Dan? I was a little bit like you, as I was not sure how this was going to work, but I learned how it all gets done."
"That system was around well before me and may very well be going after I shuffle off my mortal coil…."
"You're a big boy Dan, learn to adapt..." - SparkyMonkeyPerthish
According to her fellow Redditors, OP has no reason to feel like she's TA in this situation whatsoever.
Hopefully her brother-in-law will come to accept and even appreciate the tradition held up by his new family.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp