Content Warning: Mentions of Domestic Abuse
Life has its ways of going up and down, with high points and low points, and for the really low points, some of us might find ourselves not handling the situation all that well.
We might even do some things that we regret, either while trying to cope or in a reactionary sort of way, pointed out the "Am I the A**hole?" (AITA) subReddit.
Redditor BirthdayAHThrowaway recently threw a birthday party for their twenty-year-old daughter, who was going to college and whose best friend was going through some terrible things in her personal life.
But when her daughter lashed out at her young cousin for helping her blow out her birthday candles, the Original Poster (OP) was shocked at her behavior.
They asked the sub:
"AITA for not caring that my daughter is going through a difficult time with a friend and returning her birthday gift after the way she treated her cousin?"
The OP's daughter, Brooke's, birthday party did not go quite how she expected.
"My daughter Brooke's birthday was on Friday, so we had a celebration at home."
"My SIL (Sister-in-Law) was holding my niece, Aria, in her lap and keeping an eye on her during the birthday celebration."
"Everything was going well until it was time for singing. Brooke blew out the candles, and her cousin Aria blew on the cake, too."
"My SIL and BIL (Brother-in-Law) said 'Oops' and apologized. My BIL started explaining to Aria why she couldn't blow on the candles at someone else's birthday, and Aria obviously didn't understand. It was just an accident."
Brooke did not take sharing the candles with Aria well.
"We were in the middle of correcting Aria when Brooke snapped at her."
"Brooke turned what happened into a scene, raising her voice and calling Aria a 'f**king brat.'"
"I immediately got firm and told Brooke to apologize."
"Brooke tried to argue that Aria ruined her birthday candles."
"I told Brooke, 'I don't care who you are or what day it is. It is never okay to treat a three-year-old that way as a 20-year-old adult.'"
"Brooke refused to apologize and stormed off."
The OP punished Brooke for how she behaved at the party.
"After everyone had left, I informed Brooke that because she refused to apologize for the way she acted towards her cousin, I was returning her purse, which was the main gift I had bought her."
"She also got a Stanley Cup, too, but I let her keep it since it's something practical for school."
"Brooke tried arguing that she was too old for me to be confiscating her things, and returning the purse was going too far."
"I just told Brooke that I bought the purse with my own money and was free to do what I pleased with it. And if she wanted to act like a child, then she's going to get treated like one."
But the OP's wife, Kimberly, felt there must be more to the story than bad behavior.
"My wife Kimberly said she is not going to re-buy the purse for Brooke, and she agreed Brooke was out-of-line for how she treated Aria during the birthday celebration."
"But Kim said that I should have more understanding for Brooke because of what's going on with Jessy."
"Jessy has been Brooke's best friend since they were in fourth grade. The problem is that Jessy recently got engaged, and her fiance is not a good guy. Brooke and Jessy's family staged an intervention to talk to Jessy, but Jessy is insistent on the marriage and has been talking to Brooke less and less."
The OP didn't agree with their wife's reasoning.
"Of course, I understand that it is a heartbreaking situation, and I am sorry Brooke has to experience that with her friend. But what is happening with Jessy has nothing to do with the way Brooke treated Aria."
"If Brooke had snapped at Aria but immediately apologized after, then I could see how returning her purse could be seen as unfair."
"But I think Kimberly is being too lenient with our daughter, and Brooke needs to understand that going through a difficult situation is not an excuse to behave poorly towards others."
"AITA?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NTA: Not the A**hole
- YTA: You're the A**hole
- ESH: Everybody Sucks Here
- NAH: No A**holes Here
Some thought that the OP's daughter, being 20 years old, made her behavior inexcusable.
"NTA. A 20-year-old cursing out a three-year-old is TOO. FAR."
"Also the irony of this from your daughter: 'Brooke tried arguing that she's too old for me to be confiscating her things and returning the purse was going too far.' Uhhh. She's too old to be behaving like a spoiled brat at 20 years old. She needs to be able to regulate her emotions when a toddler makes a small mistake, and not apologizing is ridiculous."
"You can have empathy for her going through a sh*t time with her friend, but she does not get to take it out on others around her, especially little ones without a concept of their mistakes! Absolutely not okay. This wouldn't be acceptable as a social norm in college or at the workplace. Don't let it slide now." - tsweetsie
"I assumed we were dealing with, like, an eight-year-old (who ought to have known better than to blow on someone else's cake, hence the disproportionate anger) and, like, a twelve-year-old (older but young enough to be upset by this and be out of control with emotions, hence the disproportionate anger)."
"The fact that this is between a three-year-old and a twenty-year-old has blown my mind." - My_Poor_Nerves
"OP, a 20-year-old still has more maturing to do, but part of that is learning to take accountability for when you mess up. The lack of willingness to own up to losing her s**t and taking it out on a three-yea-rold is the worrisome part."
"This one is kinda tough to allow 'natural consequences,' because there probably aren't any that she would care about at this point. She doesn't seem concerned that she might have damaged the relationship with her aunt and uncle, or even her young cousin who might otherwise idolize her and look up to her as a sister and a friend."
"So in that case, taking back the purse so that she at least connects it to the birthday debacle is maybe the closest thing. NTA." - Raptor_Girl_1259
"NTA. Brooke doesn't get a pass for being an AH to a toddler just because she's going through a difficult time. 20 years is more than enough time to figure out you don't take out your personal problems on others, ESPECIALLY a three-year-old. Seriously, what the f**k?!"
"Brooke's personal crap doesn't matter here in this situation. Brooke was a major AH, and you were right to try to hold her to some consequences." - ElaNinja
"She gotta act her age, and cussing out a three-year-old is not acting her age. So, treating her like a petulant teenager is probably appropriate. NTA." - tango241
"NTA. Hey, it sounds like you handled the situation with Brooke in a firm but fair way. She needs to understand that her actions have consequences, regardless of what she's going through with her friend Jessy."
"Returning the purse might seem harsh to Brooke, but it's a clear message that disrespectful behavior won't be tolerated, especially towards family members. Your wife Kimberly seems to agree with the decision too, so you're not alone in this."
"I was hoping Brooke would learn from this experience and understand the importance of treating others with kindness and respect, no matter what's happening in her personal life." - ChloeCuddlezs
But others understood where Kimberly was coming from and sympathized with Brooke.
"No 20-year-old should be cussing a three-year-old out, but we can sympathize at least a little bit."
"First: Why was the kid right next to the cake in the first place? Especially if the SIL was already holding her and watching her during the celebration? Is this a common behavior for Aira?"
"Second: Little kids spit a lot when they blow out candles."
"Third: OP's daughter is going through an extremely rough time watching a friend be in an abusive situation and, although this is childish, might've really wanted that birthday wish."
"This was likely the straw that broke the camel's back, and it would not be shocking if OP's daughter is having a breakdown, yet her parents are more worried about punishing her than recognizing that their daughter is having an extremely rough time. Especially given OP doesn't seem to actually believe that watching Jessica be in an abusive relationship is serious enough to affect Brooke's mental health." - studily_curious
"By the time my kids turned three, they both knew that you weren't allowed to blow out candles on other people's birthday cakes or open their gifts. It's just common sense that one must teach their child."
"Just like it's common sense that one shouldn't curse out a three-year-old. In my honest opinion, there's much more to this story, and the three-year-old's bratty behaviors are because her parents have zero parenting skills and are raising an entitled brat."
"YTA to 'take away,' AKA: steal a gift that you've already given your daughter. People need to give one another grace, especially parents because they're going to need their kids giving them grace one day." - JohnLakeman01
"ESH, except Aria. Because she's a child."
"1. Gifts shouldn't come with conditions. Gifts should be given with love and thought. Not 'If you behave the way I want you to, then you get a present.'"
"2. She shouldn't have yelled at her cousin. I agree with you there. But where tf were her parents? How did she even get close enough to blow out the candles?"
"3. Her best friend is in a crisis and is losing her friend to an awful situation. Of course, that's gonna affect her mood and behavior. It doesn't excuse what she did." - Select_Silver4695
"Brooke is still wrong for what she did, there will obviously be consequences, but one can ALSO understand that:"
1. Her behavior is likely stemming from a very stressful event in her life. A 20-year-old is still cognitively developing, and if anything, a 20-year-old is still fresh out of their teenage years. Young Adults don't really finish developing until they hit 25."
"2. Whether it's someone's wedding, birthday, or graduation, nothing excuses an adult from yelling at a child, but you most DEFINITELY can be upset that a child has ruined an event. That is on the parents for not paying attention to a young child."
"No one wants a three-year-old spitting all over their birthday cake, a five-year-old tearing open the baby shower gifts, or a seven-year-old eating the wedding cake. Kids don't know any better, sure, but that doesn't excuse the parents for letting their kids run wild at an event meant for someone else, family or not. That's just rude and inconsiderate."
"Everyone in this case, except for the three-year-old, are all contributors to the problem." - Immediate-Theory-867
"Taking away this present is not going to teach Brooke what you want it to teach her. You can take away the present if you want as punishment, but if you really think she's lacking kindness and respect, why not try to teach that? When you go straight to a punishment completely unrelated to the transgression, you just teach people to be bitter and angry at something they feel is unfair."
"If this is a common occurrence with Brooke, then you effed up a long time ago. The time to intervene was when this wasn't ingrained in your daughter."
"If this is totally out of character, why are you not more worried about your daughter and less worried about this situation?"
"I think a better approach is to wait until things calm down and then talk to her rationally. Is she really the kind of person to curse at a three-year-old? How could she handle it better? Is she doing okay? Does she need help?"
"Taking away the purse shuts all the communication down. She's not going to want to talk to you, and if she does, it's going to be to get the purse back and not to legit apologize."
"I also have to say, of course, the parents apologized. What were they going to do? They should have stopped this before it happened." - ErikLovemonger
The subReddit was shocked on all fronts by how Brooke, a twenty-year-old, had behaved at her birthday when her three-year-old cousin blew the candles out on her cake out of turn. While that could be frustrating and disappointing for anyone, and possibly even gross, cussing at a young child over the excitement wasn't going to bring that moment back.
But some also pointed out that because Brooke was going through some tough, hopefully unprecedented, times with her friend, there was a distinct possibility that she was feeling out of sorts and was behaving and reacting in ways that were not normal for her. If the OP reflected on what happened and realized this was out of character for their daughter, then Brooke likely needed much more support to get through supporting her friend.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp