Weddings are supposed to be for the people getting married, but sometimes family makes demands of their own.
A soon-to-be bride dealing with her mother's increasing demands turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit to ask a hypothetical "Would I Be The A**hole" (WIBTA) question for feedback.
Exact_Jump7599 asked:
"WIBTA if I call off the wedding my mom planned for me?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"I (28, female) am having two wedding celebrations in about 7 months."
"My mom is planning a large, cultural celebration that is centered around a religion she and my dad are very active in. The ceremony and those hosting will be speaking a non-English language."
"The groom (34, male) and I do not speak the language and do not participate in this religion nor are we present in the cultural community. The guest list is well over 350 people, many of which I've never met."
"This takes place 7 days before the second wedding."
"The second is a small/medium sized, American style wedding. We have invited 100 people that includes our immediate family, close distant family, close friends, and co-workers and their +1's."
"We only want people we care about here. This is the one we agree is our 'real wedding'."
"My mom asked if she could invite some of her friends to the 2nd wedding. We told her she could invite 15 people. She made a list of 25."
"We stood firm on 15, and she increased her list to 30, saying she will pay for them. All 30 of her guests are already invited to the cultural wedding and are strangers to us (the bride and groom)."
"After many weeks of excuses of why she should be able to invite more than 15 people, she has now given an ultimatum: If I don't allow her to bring everyone she wants (now 40+ people) to the American style wedding, she will not come."
"WIBTA if, in response to her ultimatum, we call off the 1st wedding?"
The OP provided some context:
"We didn't want to do the cultural wedding in the first place. We would be saying words we can't understand in a language we don't speak, in clothes we would never wear, with people we don't know. It would feel like a show rather than a celebration of our love."
"We only agreed to the cultural wedding despite not practicing the religion or being active in the community because we knew my mom would want to invite many people, and we thought it was the best way for us to accommodate her.
"It's now clear she will be upset if she doesn't get her way for both ceremonies."
"However, I understand a lot of work goes into planning such a large party. She has spent a lot of time getting the cultural outfits that are all made by hand and must be important from a different country."
"Almost every person in the community knows about this cultural wedding, and it would be embarrassing for her if we called it off. We could just do the cultural wedding, and let my mom skip the real wedding if she's that upset about her friends."
"My dad, me, and my fiancé are paying for the 2nd wedding. My dad is paying for the 1st one alone."
"When my mom said she would pay for it, she meant my dad would pay. She is a stay-at-home mom (SAHM) and an empty nester.
"My dad's opinion is 'No fighting, it's bad for the wedding' and will take no one's side."
The OP summed up why they might be the a**hole in their situation.
"I would be the a**hole for calling off the cultural wedding because of all the work my mom put into planning it so far."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
- INFO - more information needed
Redditors decided the OP would not be the a**hole (NTA/WNBTA).
"This is giving Desi (Indian expats in America) wedding vibes. I'd suggest starting with holding your ground on the second wedding—if your mom insists she won't come without her giant guest list, tell her you'll be sorry to miss her, and go forth as planned."
"Either she 1) will be angry enough with your ingratitude to cancel the first wedding on her own; or 2) will back down, and at least you'll get the smaller wedding you want, even if you have to suffer through the bigger cultural celebration."
"My own wedding was absolutely hijacked by my parents inviting 80% of the guest list, and in retrospect, I wish I had just let them throw a separate function and done a smaller wedding the way I wanted without their input or money." ~ mk21212
"I would definitely have someone in the parking lot. Mom may just bring them anyway after agreeing to the 15, by the sounds of it." ~ CannabisGorilla
"I love Indian weddings. You have 300-500 guests, where 100 of them are the guests of the bride and groom. Then the rest are the parents' circle of friends, both parents' long-time neighbors, your 3rd cousin twice removed."
"And of course, so and so from the temple invited me to their kids' wedding, so I have to invite them to yours. Your dance teacher from 5th grade..." ~ 1peatfor7
"Yea, I've been a guest at a Hindu wedding before, because it was my mom's coworker's daughter getting married."
"It was a fun time, but for obvious reasons, I didn't know anyone." ~ ThxRedditSyncVanced
"Same—I am American, married to Desi. We let his family do whatever they wanted for that wedding and then had another wedding that was fun." ~ lalacourtney
"Yup, my sister was allowed to invite one table of her friends to her own wedding. The rest of the 290 guests were all my mom's Desi community (not even friends)." ~ HoleInWon929
"You realize that she will invite 60+ people to your 2nd wedding no matter what you tell her, right? You need to hire security for the 2nd wedding because she will try to crash it with her 100 BFFs."
"You need to be firm with her; she can either have her 15 or she and her groupies can't come. Tell her security will deny entrance to anyone not on your list, including her. Then tell her if she can't abide by your rules, you and your fiancé won't show up to the first wedding."
"Do you have passwords for your vendors? I wouldn't put it past her to call your venue, florist, caterer, DJ, etc... and cancel or change the plans. After all, she needs to make sure her invitees have food and a place to sit." ~ Classic_Ad3987
"NTA. You're doing this entire performative ceremony FOR HER, and she still wants to commandeer your actual wedding? That's manipulative and unfair."
"Setting boundaries NOW will definitely pay off in the long run, even if it smarts at first. Good luck, and I wish you and your partner a lifetime of joy." ~ CosmicContessa
"NTA. Have the 2nd wedding and keep your mother's guest list limited as originally advised. Don't let her bully you into getting her way."
"If she doesn't like the boundary, tell her you'll miss her at the wedding, but will be happy to share photos with her at a future date. I'm guessing mom gets whatever she wants from her husband."
"Set your boundary with her NOW. You will appreciate enforced boundaries in the future as mom realizes she doesn't get a say in your marriage. Just make sure you and your partner are on the same page."
"I don't understand having the 1st wedding as it is just to make mom happy and seems to have no meaning to you. Personally, I'd be very uncomfortable being a bride/groom in a religious wedding not of my religion. Why can't mom just have a big party to celebrate the marriage instead of a religious ceremony?" ~ Ducky818
"Do you and future husband a huge favor and nip your mom's antics in the bud. Your mom sounds exhausting. I don't see this changing after you are married or have kids."
"She will continue to manipulate you into capitulation, her entitled attitude will not change, if anything she will double down. Your husband and marriage will suffer. Set a precedent, set clear boundries and deal with the fallout now." ~ mikeesq22
"She's just trying to bully you. Call her bluff. Tell her you'll miss her at the second wedding."
"If she pushes back, tell her you won't be at wedding #1 at all, they can have it with a stand-in or a Barbie, you don't care, but she's not running your wedding OR your life, and the sooner she gets that, the better. Clap back and stand your ground." ~ Gatodeluna
"NTA. She's playing a dangerous game. You are in the power position in this dynamic. You are the bride. You get what you want."
"If she is willing to boycott the ceremony most important to you, you have every right (and don't guilt yourself over this) to boycott the one important to her. This is intro level FAFO." ~ mad_housewife
"NTA. Tell her that the cultural wedding was only happening so that she could invite all the people she wanted and you were willing to let her invite 15 people to the second wedding."
"Since she refuses to work with you and has threatened not to come to the other wedding, you have decided that you won't be doing the cultural wedding because it was for her and not you." ~ naranghim
OP is looking to set boundaries with her mother. This may be the first step on that journey.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp