Since women first entered the workforce, a gender pay gap has existed. Women in the same job with the same responsibilities earn less than their male counterparts.
But in individual households, women as the higher earner, or even primary breadwinner, is happening more often. However, not everyone is a fan.
Some people see it as a disruption of the proper order of things. In their world, a woman's only important role is that of wife and mother.
Being a stay-at-home-mom is the ideal.
A woman who doesn't want to give up her career, turned to the "Am I The A**Hole" (AITAH) subReddit for feedback.
Similar to AITA, the AITAH subReddit allows posters to ask for advice and post about ending romantic relationships—both things that are banned on AITA. However there are no official voting acronyms and no final judgment given.
Strange-Corner5670 asked:
"AITAH for asking my future in-laws for money?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"My fiance's parents are loaded. Old money loaded. They can afford what I'm asking no problem."
"I make very good money at my job. I'm currently 27 and earn over $170,000 USD a year. Tim is a teacher. He doesn't make as much, but he has a trust fund so he works sort of as a public service. It's big in his family."
"Recently I had a weird conversation with him and his folks. They think after the wedding, I should quit working and be a stay-at-home-mom (SAHM). I thought they were joking and kind of laughed. They are perfectly serious. They think it's emasculating that I earn more than Tim."
"Over the course of my career, I will earn much more than him. But his trust fund is low seven figures. He could afford to pay me what I earn yearly, but he can't due to the stipulations of his trust. His mom on the other hand has lots of interest built up in her trust."
"So I offered a solution I thought was fair. They set up an unrecoverable trust for me. They must contribute my gross earnings yearly with bumps for anticipated raises and promotions. The deposits would be for the next 35 years. That way I'm a stay-at-home-mom, Tim is the breadwinner, and I'm protected in the case of a divorce."
"They went f*cking nuts. Apparently I'm ridiculous for thinking they will give me money.
I offered a compromise. I sign a prenup wherein I am entitled to half of Tim's trust fund in the case of divorce if I give up my career. No matter what, a prenup will be involved—just not one that protects me."
"Also not acceptable to them. I'm kind of at a loss. Do they honestly think I would give up my career with zero safety net?"
"My mom says I'm being kind of rude putting everything in such stark monetary terms."
"I think I was abrupt at worst. I think I'm being reasonable."
"I could have been more polite. But I make my own gold. I don't need theirs unless they take that ability away from me."
My whole point to them was that I expected equity in my future. If I were giving up my career, I wanted security. If they cannot find a way to give it to me, I'm more than happy to keep my job and live my life my way."
"I would rather work than take the money."
"I would love a trust fund while advancing my career like my fiancé has, or trying to make it as a van life influencer, or working as a dog groomer. However, the fact of the matter is I don't have that safety net, so I will NOT give up my current financial situation for anything less than equal security."
"Would you?"
"Here are the possible answers to my question: 'Yes, I would give up my financial independence without any sort of safety net' or 'No, I would not give up my financial independence without a guaranteed safety net'."
"What do you think?"
The OP later added:
"Tim was present for all this. It never came up before now. He wants me to be a SAHM, but he was okay with either of my proposals."
"We have shared our bills 50/50 since we got together. He uses his trust to supplement his earnings. My extra money goes into my investment accounts."
"We don't live a lavish lifestyle."
"I'm not asking them for payment in exchange for my choice. I'm making them put skin in the game if they want me to end my established career because they're embarrassed that I make more money than their son."
"Like, his trust fund is protected and in the case of a divorce, I would only be entitled to support based on his personal earnings after leaving a lucrative career at his request. F*ck that noise."
"Not getting married until this is settled."
Some Redditors weighed in by using the AITA voting acronyms:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors decided the OP was
"I think you have your answer. NTA. If it's a 'f*ck that noise' situation, then you might have to reconsider this whole thing."
"I dated a guy who told me he was intimidated by my career and all I could think was 'that is the single most unattractive thing I have ever heard'. It was hard for me to come back from that."
"It's not 1970 and I don't need nor want to boost a fragile ego." ~ interestedinhow
"Look, if Tim wasn't on your side during this discussion, why do you even want to marry him now?" ~ Outrageous_Guard_674
"OP, when people show you who they are, believe them. You are not the a**hole for what you asked—only a brainless idiot would agree to abandon their financial independence without any compensation."
"However, you will be an a**hole if you marry your fiancé and have his vile parents as in-laws. Because they will never respect you and will always try to control you. And your spineless fiance won't ever defend you. That will teach a very bad example to your future children."
"You are still very young and have a great career, which is not only fulfilling, but also making you earn a lot, so absolutely keep it. Don't settle with someone who is insecure of your success."
"A real partner would not only support you, but also be proud of your success and achievements. If you are forced to be a SAHM, you won't be happy and will resent your partner."
"SAHM is only fulfilling and a blessing IF that's what you want and choose, not when it is forced on you by some very patriarchal outdated views." ~ Surpriseparty2023
"Old money is weird. They live by their own rules. They are not worried about a divorce, because you are a possession to show off, like a nice car or watch."
"If Tim gets tired of you later, you should feel blessed he let you enjoy the time with his family that he did. I work with a lot of these families, and it's wild how they actually view people."
"They will do charities and say nice things to the public to keep up appearances. But you just got a first hand experience of what the true behind the scenes conversations look like."
"Don't quit your job, if they have a problem with it, ensure the trust is set up in your name." ~ Informal_Ask6646
"Nobody feels more entitled than the rich." ~ SuperX_AtomicKitten
"While it reads as entitlement, it's quite a bit darker than that. They don't see 'poors' as people with their own agency, and pretty much anyone who isn't part of the old money club falls into this category."
"I was in a similar position once (made more money and was more educated than my partner, whose parents were just like this) and constantly made to feel like it was 'cute' I'd achieved what I'd achieved (basically clawing my way from the lower working class to upper middle entirely on my own)."
"It was exasperating, and eventually I realized they would never, ever see me as anything other than a temporarily-not-dirt-poor person who would eventually take advantage of their precious son and his inheritance."
"I left and was immediately happier." ~ Jnnjuggle32
"My mother was guilted into giving up her career to stay home as a mom, and it was the worst decision she's ever made."
"Her circumstances were a little different, but she was also married to a man whose family had money and told her she needed to focus on being a mother, and he was going to be a lawyer and take care of her and all of that stuff an immigrant's daughter dreams of."
"And then that didn't happen and she was stuck at home relying on him for money that he wasn't bringing in. But by then her career was gone, she was 40 with three kids, an associate's degree that she never got the chance to further with the company that would have paid for more schooling, and all her friends from that job were gone too."
"No professional connections, no honed skills, no income. You never know what could happen. Don't let yourself be unprepared." ~ bigsigh7
"Offer them a third option."
"Since you make more money, it only makes sense for your husband to quit his job and be a stay-at-home dad. With his teaching degree, he can homeschool your children."
"Plus, it'll give him time to focus on more important things, like going to the club and volunteering for charity. It's a perfect solution." ~ username-_-
The OP has a lot to think about and negotiate with her fiancé. Hopefully, they find a solution that works for them both.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp