Sometimes we only find out that a relationship is not meant to last forever when it's time to get married.
Weddings have a weird way of bringing out some people's true colors, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor ReplacementMental370 had been with her boyfriend for seven years and had been engaged to him for the past year, but it was only when they really started to make wedding plans that John's parents' feelings about her became apparent.
When they sat the couple down and said that John needed to "step up and be a man," and that she needed to "submit" to their son in order to not "emasculate" him, the Original Poster (OP) was deeply hurt that they didn't see her as good enough for their son.
She asked the sub:
"Am I overreacting if I cancel my wedding reception over a talk my future in-laws had with me?"
The OP had received some judgmental comments from her boyfriend's family over the years.
"I have been dating my fiancé, John, for around seven years."
"John’s family goes to church every Sunday, and while I was raised to believe in God, but church was always optional."
"When I started dating John in high school, I didn’t think any of this mattered. John wasn’t big on attending church every week, and I did attend with him once or twice when I wasn’t working."
"I’m aware that this bothers John’s parents, as they have made a few comments about me throughout the years that have hurt my feelings."
"However, I’ve always tried to ignore those comments because, at the end of the day, John and I love each other, and I know he’s the man I want to spend the rest of my life with."
How John's family viewed the OP became clear during the wedding planning.
"John and I have been engaged for over a year, but we just recently decided we want to finally tie the knot."
"He didn’t want a wedding, and I had a dress but didn’t want to plan a wedding, so we compromised and found a local place that would marry us, take photos, etc. for only $400."
"The ceremony is in two months, will be an hour long, and we will only have around 30 guests. It checked off the boxes for us: the venue is planning almost everything for me, and the ceremony itself only lasts 10 minutes, so no big parade."
"After the ceremony is pictures, and then we planned on a small lunch with immediate family only."
"However, John’s parents really wanted a reception dinner after at their house, as John’s family is very big and he has lots of family who’d like to see him on his big day. I agreed, as I think that’s fair."
The OP was shocked when she heard her in-laws' demands.
"Now, onto the main issue. Last week, after the reception decorations were bought, John’s parents sent everyone out of the room besides John and me to have a 'talk' with us."
"They told us we need pre-marital counseling at the local church (I’m not opposed, but John doesn’t really want it)."
"The conversation then diverted into a lecture that left me feeling very hurt and offended."
"They told John he needs to 'step up' and that I need to become a Christian woman who submits to my husband 'without complaints.' This talk went on, and I quickly realized the entire thing was directed at me. They said John will be the man of the relationship, and not submitting to him will 'emasculate' him."
"I was stunned and offended. I was raised to be independent and to submit to no man."
"John and I are equals in our relationship. We make decisions together. When we disagree, we compromise. I will not submit to him, and he will not submit to me. That’s how it’s always been for us."
The OP felt hurt and betrayed.
"I’m angry that, after seven years, John’s parents still don’t feel I’m good enough for their son. I left their home fuming and tried to let it go, but I can’t yet."
"I’m upset, and I really don’t know if I want to go through with this reception now. I don’t want to be surrounded by people who will never think I’m good enough, and it hurts."
"Last night my future mother-in-law (MIL) wanted to hand-make the invitation envelopes with me, and I shut down the idea and cried afterwards because the thought of being in a house with future in-laws who don’t deem me worthy, without John there, makes me more upset and anxious."
John's supportive comments did not make the OP feel better.
"John says he doesn’t want to have a reception if this is upsetting me. He says it’s not worth the stress and hassle if the end result is I’m not happy."
"However, I just worry I’m overreacting about this whole thing."
"I don’t want to deprive his family of celebrating with him just because I’m upset."
"Am I overreacting? Should I just let things go for a day so John’s family can celebrate the wedding with him?"
"AIO?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
- NOR: Not Overreacting
- YOR: You're Overreacting
Some side-eyed John for letting his parents say all of those hurtful things without cutting them off.
"Why is he sitting there listening to his parents telling you what you have to do? He should have shut that conversation down immediately!" - Particular-King218
"I mean, it’s great that afterwards, he is like, 'Don’t worry about it, babe,' but sideline support is not helpful and an uncomfortable outlook on your future life together." - kent2812
"Does he say, 'ignore them' to keep the peace, but not actually speak up and set boundaries? He needs to be clear with them that their interference and opinions won’t be tolerated."
"Otherwise, I’d wonder if he’s being honest about his feelings on the matter or if he’d stand up for me in the future. Or will he just say, 'suck it up'?" - trvllvr
"That 'don't worry about it, babe' really sounds like it's gonna be, 'but is it that bad to submit to me? You love me, right?' within six months of marriage." - Ecstatic_nyaa
"I've seen this play out a few times. These men agree with their parents but don't want to risk the woman leaving. So he placates her until the wedding, and then once that knot is tied, his true colours start showing."
"Suddenly, he wants you to stop working and be financially dependent on him."
"No more friend hangouts."
"Expectations of immediate motherhood and chores to be done because 'that's what my mom sacrificed for us.'"
"The fact he didn't shut that s**t down immediately shows he agrees with them and is just placating her until it's set in stone."
"It will become a lifetime of the in-laws making jabs, saying, 'Wow, she doesn't listen to you after you worked so hard?' Even the most 'equal partnership' dudes eventually start expressing his parents' views."
"Because why would he speak up? Having a bangmaid surrogate mommy is the dream! But he won't say that out loud to OP." - Novaer
"If your fiancé isn't isn't standing up to your future in-laws while they bully and berate you, that is a huge red flag."
"You say your relationship is equal, and you two are partners, but it doesn't sound like he sees it that way. Do not marry this man if he's unable or unwilling to advocate for you."
"Frankly, if my parents talked to my spouse the way your fiancé's talks to you, I'd cut contact. NOR." - caffeinated_panda
Others agreed and pointed out that the OP wasn't just signing up for an awkward reception; she was signing up for a life of demanded "submission."
"Your last line is the most important. 'Should I just let things go for a day…'"
"The problem, my dear, is that it is NOT just a day. This will absolutely be an ongoing issue in your marriage, and you will get pushback from his parents every time anything comes up."
"People who want you to submit are people who want to control your life. They will try to control your marriage, and they will absolutely try to control your children. Think about what that would be like if you have a female child."
"It doesn’t sound like your fiancé is the problem. So you and he need to present a united front if you choose to stay with him."
"You need to completely and explicitly explain to them that his penis doesn’t take priority over your vagina. That you’re not planning on submitting to anyone and that will never change, and that if they continue to push this agenda, they will never, ever see their grandchildren."
"And then you need to commit to it, and every time they try to push this, you guys need to leave. And you need to give them penalties: the first time they bring up this s**t, you guys don’t talk to them or interact with them for a month. The second time, it’s three months, and then you tell them that if there’s a third time, it will be permanent. And you need to be willing to stick to this."
"This is, as far as I’m concerned, mental illness, and evil and hatred on their parts, and it will take over your life: that’s been shown. That’s how we ended up where we are in America today. So be aware this is what you’re walking into and act accordingly." - allisondbl
"Has John told his parents that you two are adults, thanks but no thanks for the advice, and the marriage is between two people and they are not part of the marriage?"
"This is more than just about a reception. This is an example of how they are going to try and control you throughout your marriage."
"John needs to rein in his parents now. A simple 'That won't work for us. We are equals in our relationship' is a good place for him to start." - Seeker_ofLight
"If the majority of his family are like his parents, the reception could end up being just one night of talks from aunts and uncles, jabs at OP for not preparing John's plate or not wearing modest enough clothing, or her speaking when she shouldn't."
"Maybe she'll get to spend her evening in the kitchen helping alongside the women, and John won't even think to check in on her because that's the norm in his family."
"She'll be all alone with it because John won't stand up for her. He'll just expect her to 'keep the peace.'" - calminthedark
"You are not overreacting, but I don’t think you should even move forward with the small wedding until you know 100% that John is on the same page as you where religion is concerned, and that his family has no say in the way you live and raise possible future kids."
"This is a major issue that you have to address!" - Ok_Conversation9750
"Know that it will come up again and again, especially if kids are involved. If he can’t set boundaries with his parents, then that isn’t a good idea to move forward with a wedding. NOR." - CuriousBird337
"You just got a glimpse of what the rest of your life will look like."
"A life of 'submitting' to another human. How f**king gross and demeaning. I’m a man and have far too much respect for my wife to treat her like that; it’s absurd." - Mott5G
After receiving feedback, the OP shared an update, still hopeful for her relationship.
"John and I sat down over some parking lot Taco Bell and talked about everything. I brought up my feelings and concerns, and I even had him read this post and your comments."
"We are on the same page; I submit to no one."
"He also talked to his parents about the situation, questioning what they meant, etc."
"I already knew he shared my sentiments, but I wanted to set the record straight, since some of you weren’t so sure. John is an amazing man who has always treated me well. He supports my dreams, and he takes care of me when I need it. He’s going to be an incredible husband."
"Thank you for all of your support."
Though the subReddit wasn't convinced, the OP was certain that John shared her worldviews and would stand by her regardless of what his parents might say to her. Hopefully, in the future, he'd be more willing to speak up, rather than allow his wife to be spoken down to.
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp