We're all adults here, and we all have our own ideas about how a relationship should go.
We envision what a healthy relationship would look like and how significant others can support each other.
But what qualifies as a deal-breaker, that's where we start to disagree. How far can a significant other go before the relationship is beyond salvageable?
This was the question one man struggled with on the "Relationship Advice" subReddit after he discovered his brother had been cheated on by his fiancée during her own bachelorette party.
But seeing as how it wasn't his relationship on the line, Redditor ThrowRABrotherIsDumb turned to the subReddit, looking for suggestions on how he could remain faithful and supportive to his brother.
The Original Poster (OP) asked the sub:
"How do I (27[male]) support my brother (29[male]) and his marriage after his fiancée (27[female]) cheated during her bachelorette party?"
The OP was all for the engaged couple until the bachelorette party.
"I'll try to keep this as brief as possible and for anonymity, I will refer to my brother as 'Jack' and his fiancée as 'Jill'."
"My brother Jack and his fiancée Jill have been together for about 4 years and engaged since early 2019. I really liked them together and felt that Jill was the first 'marriage material' girlfriend that my brother dated."
"The wedding was planned for earlier this year but was canceled indefinitely after it was discovered that Jill cheated during her bachelorette trip 5 months before the wedding."
"She had no intention of ever telling him but he found out when he saw a text from a friend of hers that was on the trip. The text basically said, 'I don't know how I can stand up in front of your families and give a toast after what happened.' After a few days of trickle truths and arguing, it came out that Jill had sex with someone while drunk."
With the news of what had happened, the OP's brother broke off the wedding.
"Jack was devastated and called off the wedding immediately."
"They broke up and about a month later Jack was in a new city with a new job. This seemed like the best possible scenario since he was away from her and had new things to keep his mind busy."
That is, until a few weeks later.
"Well, that lasted all of a few weeks and slowly Jill was getting back into his life."
"Now, a little over a year after 'the incident' she has moved in with him in his new city and just last week they became re-engaged."
"WHAT?!"
Since the couple reunited, the OP has struggled.
"I have absolutely no respect for Jill (or any cheater for that matter) and I don't understand how Jack can see past what she did. There is no excuse for cheating and to do it during a bachelorette party shows you have no respect for your partner or potential marriage."
"The first time I saw Jill after she cheated (which was at a family holiday only TWO months later), I was a little nasty and got scolded by Jack and my mother."
"From that point forward I have basically given Jill the 'grey rock' treatment. I don't engage with her unless she says something first and when I do talk to her, my answers are short."
Now the OP isn't sure what to do long-term to help his brother.
"I assumed that they were doomed to fail and I would just have to put up with her until Jack finally came to his senses."
"Now that they are re-engaged, it looks like I am going to have to put up with Jill longer than I expected and I'm not sure I can keep up the grey rock routine. There are only so many 'yeah, uh huh's' left in me before I snap and say 'hey, remember when you f**ked that guy?!'"
"My question is how can I be supportive of my brother and his marriage when I have no respect for his partner whatsoever?"
Fellow Redditors wrote in anonymously, puzzling out how to navigate the OP's brother's fiancée's recent infidelity.
Some reminded the OP that it's the brother's decision to forgive and forget, not the OP's.
"I learned it through personal experience, you're looking at it as an outsider, not invested in the person nor the relationship. Your brother forgave her. You can be mad til the sun stops shining but it still stands that he's willing to spend his life with her, whatever his reasons."
"You either make peace with it or say goodbye to your brother. I was the one who stopped supporting a relationship because the guy was living 2 lives with 2 gfs (girlfriends). I always made it very vocal. The girl who was with the guy eventually started hanging out with me less and less cause guess what, she had chosen to stay with the guy and I was effectively judgy towards her partner."
"Rule of thumb in general, you can never win against a partner. Ever. I know no matter what people say about mine, I have my mindset on stuff even when I ask advice."
"Don't make yourself the enemy. It's not your life. You're not marrying her. Leave it." - throw_ra_help_010
"Honestly..... you can't stop stupid."
"Your brother is making a huge, stupid mistake.... but you really can't do much outside of handcuffing him in the basement until he comes to his senses (the Black Snake Moan method)."
"Just be ready for when he inevitably calls when she cheats again." - SalsaRice
"I agree with this comment. OP is basically doing all [he] can do, and eventually [he'll] just have to focus on [his] own life and move on from this (moving on doesn't mean forgiving/forgetting - it means not letting it be a focal point in your brain)."
"[His] brother has made his choice, and either [he] supports him or she doesn't. There's not really anything more to it. OP isn't obliged to forgive or be friends with [his] future sister-in-law, but being cordial in the future is probably the bare minimum if [he] wants [his] brother in [his] life." - babylovesbaby
Others agreed and stressed that the OP could drive his brother away by holding a grudge.
"Infidelity can happen in any LTR (long-term relationship) or marriage. What couples do about it can either make them incompatible, break up, or learn how to repair their relationships and lead to a deeper bond."
"It's hard, you don't want to see him hurt again. So you're coming at this from a point of protecting your brother."
"But your method of protecting him is going to backfire because he's gonna have to put up boundaries with you around his relationship. You have a choice, you can either support him and let him know that you are worried, but you'll get a handle on your own worries - and will be there for him if s**t hits the fan again."
"Or you can make him run from you because you're going to put him in the impossible space of having to choose between his chosen partner and you. So your choice is, do you want to be there for him, or do you want to push him away."
"You don't have to like her. But your open hostility is going to leave your brother without the support he needs from you." - ProudPsychotic
"By being cold to his brother's soon-to-be wife, OP is forcing his brother to choose between OP and his wife. Of course he's going to choose his wife and distance himself from his brother. And then who does he go to when [and] if things go wrong with his wife?"
"My belief is, if you're close to the bride or groom and have a legitimate concern, you should voice it once, clearly and kindly and supportively, and then drop it and carry on as normal. Don't treat the spouse coldly, just do what you have to do to show you respect the bride or groom's decision." - Qwerky1928
"I think, for the most part, you're totally in the right for how you feel about Jill and what she did. At a certain point though, I think you will need to examine where the line is where your hatred of Jill begins to hurt your brother."
"You obviously despise her (I probably would too), and the pain she caused to your brother and family. However, life is messy and some couples sometimes reconcile, even after infidelity. If they stay together and their marriage is successful, at some point your hatred will be the thing hurting your brother as much as or more (if the pain fades over time) than Jill's cheating."
"Focus your energy on being there for your brother, rather than hating her. 'Grey rock' for now, but keep an eye out for your brother's best interests, since he's the one you want to support. If down the line, he decides he made a mistake getting back together with her, you can be the one to embolden him. However, if he really forgives her, it will be up to you to try to as well."
"If you're close with your brother, you may also want to talk to him honestly about what's going through his head right now. I'm sure he's confused, but there may also be layers to the story you don't know. Nothing that would justify the cheating, but perhaps something that would justify the forgiveness." - GeneralGuide
When we love someone, it's hard to see them get hurt. It's even harder when we have to watch them return to a situation we know in our hearts could hurt them again.
But we, like the OP, have to decide in those situations which is more important: convincing our loved one of the risks inherent to that situation and potentially driving them away, or showing our support and keeping our loved one close.
Woman With Cerebral Palsy Livid After Husband's Doctor Questions Why He Married Her
In the search for comprehensive medical care, people may have tough conversations about their lifestyle, work, relationships, and other potential stressors.
But a doctor can only make so many decisions on behalf of their patient, cautioned the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor _lucky96 was seeing the same doctor as her husband, so their doctor was aware of both of their medical histories and needs, including her having cerebral palsy.
But when the doctor brought up her condition during her husband's latest appointment and questioned their marriage, the Original Poster (OP) was appalled and wanted to find a new medical care provider.
She asked the sub:
The OP had cerebral palsy and a full life.
"I have cerebral palsy. It mainly affects my walking, but I can walk independently and live a pretty normal life."
"My husband and I have been together for three years and have a blended family with five kids altogether. Three of my kids aren’t biologically his."
The OP and her husband just started seeing a new doctor.
"We’ve both recently started seeing the same general practitioner (GP)." I’ve seen him about three times now and generally thought he was helpful."
"I had noticed he seemed very interested in my disability and would often ask questions about it and whether I had support, but I assumed he was just being thorough."
In the OP's eyes, the doctor crossed a line.
"Today, my husband had an appointment with the same doctor for stomach issues."
"During the appointment, mental health apparently came up as part of the discussion, but the appointment itself wasn’t for mental health."
"I wasn’t in the room because I was outside with our daughter. According to my husband, the doctor asked him, 'Why did you marry your wife?'"
"My husband said because he loves me, and then the doctor apparently said something along the lines of, 'With her disability and five kids, that’s a lot to take on. You realise when she’s older, you’ll have a lot to do as she ages.'"
"My husband thinks I’m overreacting because they had been discussing different stressors in his life, and believes the doctor was just talking about responsibilities and support systems."
"I understand that possibility, but I can’t get past how hurtful it feels to hear my disability described as something my husband 'took on' or as a future burden he’ll have to manage."
"The doctor also said, 'Not many men would do what you do, you’re a good man.'"
The OP was upset about the conversation her husband shared.
"What bothers me most is that the conversation wasn’t even about me, and I wasn’t there to respond or provide any context."
"I feel like the comments reduced me to my disability rather than seeing me as a wife, parent, and person."
"Am I wrong for being upset by this and considering raising it with the clinic, or does this sound inappropriate?"
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that the doctor's comments were highly inappropriate.
"That’s highly inappropriate. You are NOR." - Direction_Physical
"NOR. You are not overreacting at all. That was completely inappropriate and dehumanizing."
"You’re his patient’s wife, not his patient, while your husband is in that room. Bringing up your disability and five kids during your husband’s stomach appointment had nothing to do with his care."
"Saying you’re 'a lot to take on' and 'not many men would do what you do' frames your marriage like a charity case, and you like a burden instead of a partner."
"That’s ableist, unprofessional, and a violation of basic boundaries."
"It makes sense that you feel reduced to just your disability after hearing that."
"Raising it with the clinic is absolutely reasonable. You deserve a doctor who treats you as a whole person, not a problem for your husband to manage." - DaringDuvet
"This makes me so stabby. I’m non-verbal and have right-sided weakness."
"We were married 29 years before it happened, and the number of people who think my husband needs a medal and a parade for sticking around..."
"Don’t get me wrong. My husband is one of life’s truly good dudes. But seriously?" - sorenelf
"This is infuriating. He's a good man because he didn't ditch?"
"When my mum was diagnosed with cancer that wasn’t going to do the polite thing and get fixed, the amount of applause for my dad not leaving her was astounding."
"He was horrified at first, but that wore off pretty quickly, and he just started calling it out. That made quite a few people squirm in their own discomfort."
"It says a lot about someone who thinks a natural choice is to bail." - BasicLingonberry9914
"NOR in the slightest."
"Even if we assume good intent and the doctor wanted to make sure there are safety nets and supports in place for both of you, that has NOTHING to do with the question of why your husband married you."
"I would absolutely file a complaint, and if you both can, find another general practitioner." - ooooohcakepudding
"NOR. I have severe Aphakia, and if my specialist looked at my husband to remind him he's going to be growing old with someone who is likely going to go blind, I think I would die."
"My husband had been through h**l and back with me and my eyes long before we got married, so he knows what he signed up for. And it isn't the doc's place to sort out. Super duper unprofessional." - Global-Nature2420
"So at first, I thought you were overreacting. I am a mental health provider, and a doctor discussing stressors and very real-life situations happens all the time."
"The minute you added the part that 'not many men,' things changed. He took what could have been a normal conversation and changed it to his personal feelings, which is absolutely disgusting."
"NOR at all. I would file a complaint." - Trash_Human92
Others pointed out that it was an important conversation to have, though the doctor could have been more delicate.
"While tough, this isn't an inappropriate conversation to have if the stress is causing his health to deteriorate."
"The truth is not inappropriate. I think the way he worded it was a bit much, but not what he said."
"It appears to me the OP is not dealing with how her disability is not just about her, but everyone, etc. For example, my cancer was also stressing my loved ones out." - Total-Ad886f
"I was having panic attacks in the middle of the night due to my husband's health and lack of care. So when he finally started seeing someone in my same doctor's office (but not the same doctor), it was SO much better."
"My doc and the nurse have been really, really concerned about my mental health, so they were happy to hear that he's taking his health seriously and improving, because that means that I am sleeping more and my mental health is better, and that means my ability to manage my own chronic pain and health issues has been better."
"I was not coping at all and barely able to function." - popchex
"The doctor may have mentioned OP in the conversation with her husband if he was trying to ascertain if he had stressors that may contribute to his stomach issues. Sure, your spouse, children, work, and parents can be considered stressors at times in anyone’s life."
"For me, where he crossed the line was when he decided just how OP’s condition will impact the future."
"Firstly, OP is obviously capable of caring for everyone, including herself and children, with minimal, if any, assistance. As OP ages, more assistance may be required, but this may also be the case for her husband, too, as he ages. The responsibility of the children will not be a factor, as they are adults."
"So the doctor’s predictions are presumptive and unnecessary. Health is not guaranteed for anyone. We all will face various challenges to our physical abilities as we age."
"What I would take up with the clinic is why he felt it necessary to ask the husband why he married OP. To additionally state because of that, ‘He was a good man’ is grossly inappropriate and unprofessional."
"There is potential for an ongoing issue to arise if OP were to continue seeing this doctor. His bias toward her husband may very well influence any care she may need in the future. NOR." - Cool-Blackberry-785
"It doesn’t make sense because if your husband was talking about how stressed he was, why would the doctor bring up more reasons he should be stressed? Or if he didn’t seem stressed enough, is the doctor then going to be like, 'Consider how stressed you’ll be in X amount of years'?"
"It sort of sounds like he’s saying something like, 'Why would a man do that?'"
"The only exception I’d give is if your husband had some sort of health thing he’s completely ignoring, and the doctor was trying to give him a wake-up moment. Because then, they sort of have to be blunt to make you realize you need to prioritize your health. But simply being stressed isn’t enough to start saying, 'Why did you marry your wife?'"
"Whenever it’s women in your husband’s position, they just get told they’re an awesome rockstar. No one questions WHY they do it."
"NOR. You should find a doctor who makes you feel supported, and you feel is better overall."
"I wouldn’t make your husband change yet. It is hard to find doctors you like. Maybe when you establish with a better doctor, he’ll switch, too." - imwearingredsocks
Since the OP's husband went to the doctor to discuss stomach issues and likely how to remedy them, it's reasonable that the subject of possible stressors would come up, so the husband could avoid those stressors and improve his symptoms.
However, some Redditors felt that also including details about his marriage and fatherhood in the conversation was crossing a line, and while being a care provider to a spouse could be stressful, many felt it was being addressed from an ableist perspective instead.