When people are not off-the-rack sizes, finding clothing that fits can be an expensive nightmare.
But if your whole family is the same size, it makes things much easier. You suddenly have options in your relative's closets.
But is your clothing exchange "mean and exclusionary" to any family member who can shop off the rack in any store?
A father who thinks so turned to the "Am I The A**hole" (AITA) subReddit for feedback.
Wildwestdw asked:
"AITA for wanting to end a family tradition that excludes one child?"
The original poster (OP) explained:
"Every April, my wife's family holds a family reunion. They don't celebrate holidays together often, so they go all out for these, renting a hall, catering, the works."
"The only weird event at these reunions is a clothing swap between the women of the family. For whatever reason, when my wife and her sisters all had daughters close in age, they decided a long time ago that this was the best way to do family hand-me-downs."
"All the women in my wife's family ended up being very short (4'10"-5'1"), so they all wear 'rare' but similar sizes, so it's always worked out."
"With a 70/30 gender split and the only men in the family being myself, my brother-in-law, and my sons from a previous relationship, this swap meet is the MAIN event."
"They make it a whole show about it. It's incredibly boring from the outside, so my boys and I always head out early if we go at all."
"This would be a non-issue if it weren't for my daughter, Kate. She's my wife and I's 'ours' baby."
"Kate took after my side of the family. We're a taller family, or at least not Keebler Elves, so by the time she was 11, she started coming back with nothing from those parties."
"The first time, I assumed that she was just picky until I realized that she was starting to be bigger than her older sisters and cousins and had outgrown any size they would wear."
"My wife thought she needed to realize that not everything was for everyone and to just have fun being there. Last year, she started having body image issues, thinking she was 'fat' and needed to go on a diet, and now I'm thinking having this event is feeding it."
"This year is going to be a massive deal as my mother-in-law is going into a nursing home and is downsizing. She was so into fashion that she has an entire storage unit full, so this is going to be a TON of stuff."
"I'm starting to think the reunion shouldn't involve a clothing swap at all, and all of that should be done privately at another time. Family shouldn't be about a fashion show."
"My wife thinks that's ridiculous, and Kate is just having typical teenage problems that will go away on their own, but if she's so bothered, she can just not go or stay with the boys."
"I don't think that's right. This is mainly a girl's reunion!"
"It's not like there's anything else for an alternative for her to share in because they don't really get rid of accessories or anything, it's JUST clothes. This event is starting to get mean and exclusionary, and it needs to end."
"I'm trying my best to make them see sense, but I'm getting nothing but arguments."
"Am I really in the wrong here?"
The OP summed up their issue.
"I want a tradition that's been going on for over 20 years to end because one child doesn't fit into it even though there are members of the family who already don't go and never have."
Redditors weighed in by declaring:
- NTA - Not The A**hole
- YTA - You're The A**hole
- NAH - No A**holes Here
- ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
Redditors were split in their judgment, with some saying the OP was not the a**hole (NTA).
"Just avoid it, let the ones that like clothes swapping do their thing if they get something out of it."
"Let Kate bring a friend and go out for the day doing something fun. It doesn't have to be a gendered thing and it certainly doesn't need to be something she joins in despite getting no benefit from it."
"NTA, but don't overstep and try to stop people having fun." ~ joolster
"NTA, but I don't think you should try to stop the tradition. The tradition needs to evolve."
"Ask the family if they can include accessories, or maybe add a new tradition of a secret Santa style event where everyone brings a specific person an item of clothing in their specific size."
"You could also start a tradition that includes the men and any women who want to participate. Maybe a novelty sock exchange?"
"Something goofy that doesn't steal the show entirely but gives another focus and something else to take home." ~ Foxtastic4D
Some offered no official judgment in their response.
"Is the family saying mean things about her? Do they call her the opposite equivalent of a 'Keebler Elf', as you called them?"
"If they are, then I'm not sure getting rid of the clothing swap will solve anything. If they aren't, you and your wife need to talk to Kate about different body types and sizes."
"Nothing will be solved by brushing this aside as your wife does, and depriving all other women in the family of a cherished tradition, like you want to do.
"Even if you do think it's weird—which by the way is not your place to judge."
"I would approach this matter carefully. You're dealing with what looks like a tradition everyone else enjoys."
"It also seems like you have some prejudices against it (calling it weird, incredibly boring, saying it's become mean when no one has been mean, family shouldn't be a fashion show, etc.) that you may be conflating with valid concerns for your daughter."
"Besides, teenage girls will need to deal with many body image issues and they will be brought on by more than one thing, esp now with all the social media etc. You won't be able to control everything."
"I agree with everyone else saying just take her out to do something while the swap is happening."
"Maybe also talk to your family about having the girl cousins and sisters hang out outside of these reunions so they build stronger bonds and Kate doesn't feel like size excludes her by default." ~ PanSeer18
"Yeah, no one is being unkind here, it's just a fact of life that people are different sizes."
"As a tall woman who was plus size for most of my teen and young adult years, I could never swap clothes back and forth the way my sister and friends could."
"Would it have been fair for me to say, 'I can't do this, so everyone needs to stop'? Of course not." ~ hill-o
And others deciding OP is the a**hole (YTA).
"If I may, the clothing swap is for what you stated: 'rare' but similar sizes."
"While this event is seemingly exclusionary for Kate, it's made for women who struggle with finding inclusive sizing in the world. This is probably the only time in their life they are readily ever to have clothing fit them without having to think about tailoring it to their bodies, special ordering or scrounging the very limited petite areas of a department store."
"The irony in you wanting to shut down an inclusive event because it excludes your daughter… who readily has access in sizing for a world made for her is confusing."
"You're N T A for wanting to protect your daughter's feelings, but YTA for thinking that hers are the only feelings that matter and haven't approached it from making it a teachable moment for your daughter when it comes to her privilege... finding clothes that fit is just the tip of the iceberg."
"Also, in regards to body image and body issues—as a woman who went through puberty and also raised one through it? Your wife isn't wrong when it comes to this age."
"Kate's age is the worst when it comes to body issues—she's going through hormones and developing curves and it's really hard for girls to not see these body changes as 'fat' vs entering a different stage in their life."
"However, your wife is wrong that she'll just grow out of it—it's important that you and your wife do what you can to communicate and build her confidence, but you can't remove every obstacle and most certainly can't do so based on an assumption." ~ happytobeherethnx
"He wants to end a 20 year family tradition which dozens of people enjoy, because it's upsetting his daughter. And he thinks he's not the a**hole?"
"Why would it be up to him to end this tradition? OP is definitely the a**hole. YTA OP." ~ NoLikeVegetals
"YTA. Let them do their clothing swap, it brings them joy. OP can come up with a fun activity to do with the others during this clothing swap."
"Talk to the rest of the family and see what they would like to do. OP said this was a special event, so create something special."
"Cornhole tourney, karaoke, card games, dominoes, heads up, laser tag, paint ball."
"Instead of trying to take away something that a majority of the family enjoys doing, come up with something fun the others can do." ~ RezCoug
"YTA. You could make suggestions that do not attempt to end something 99% of the participants enjoy. You could refrain from saying things like the event is 'mean and exclusionary' when it is not."
"You are choosing to try to put an end to something that isn't yours to put an end to."
"Suggestions include your daughter choosing things that she can upcycle or resell to buy other things, choosing things that she can wear in different ways, or including a bag of things that you (or your wife) have thrifted that will fit your daughter."
"I have three girls, two are very very petite and one (the youngest) is tall. Now she hands down things to her older sisters or they thrift together, upcycle things to fit, etc... They make it work and have since she was a preteen (which is when she outgrew her sisters)."
"If your daughter doesn't enjoy the event, she doesn't have to attend. It really is that simple, but there are ways to make it so she will enjoy the event."
"But again, making it out to be mean and exclusionary is not truthful. It isn't mean or exclusionary. No one is seeking to not have things that fit your daughter, they are just shorter than your daughter." ~ sheramom4
"Especially since he says the other women are all RARE sizes. It's a longtime fun tradition that makes sense!"
"I'm short (5'0"), and have a really hard time finding clothes that fit. I'd love to find a good source of clothes that fit instead of paying an extra $30 per pair to get my PETITE pants hemmed so they're not dragging 3" below on the floor. Used clothing would be fine!"
"Instead of ending everyone's fun, OP should take his tall, NORMAL-SIZED daughter for a fun shopping spree the day before. She'll have things to model in the swap that won't fit anyone else."
"Trust me. I KNOW what it's like when nothing you see fits—for 60+ years! So do all the other women in OP's family. The big difference is his daughter's not wearing a hard-to-find size that IS available off the rack."
"Don't steal their joy, OP. Make your daughter happy without doing so. If you cancel everyone else's practical fun, YTA." ~ FamilyRedShirt
While people's judgments varied, almost everyone's message was the same:
The OP shouldn't steal his wife's family's joy.
How do you think this family could resolve their wardrobe woes?
Woman Asks If It's Wrong To Hold Grudge After Mom Told Her When She 8 Years Old That She Wished She'd Aborted Her
While some people view having and raising children as the greatest blessing, some parents hold their children's existence against them for their entire lives.
And when they feel that way about their children, they're unfortunately typically pretty honest about it, cringed the members of the "Am I Overreacting?" (AIO) subReddit.
Redditor heavelymango knew from the time she was young that her mother did not really like her and significantly favored her sister.
But when her mother told her at the age of eight that she wished she had aborted her, the Original Poster (OP) held on to that grudge for years after the fact.
She asked the sub:
The OP had a grudge against her mother.
"I (22 Female) have been holding onto a grudge due to something my mom told me when I was roughly eight or nine years old."
"Growing up, I was a rebellious kid and always felt as if my mom favored my older sister. My sister would always get whatever she wanted."
"I know she was born with Down syndrome and always needed more attention and care, but if my sister wanted my tablet, for example, she would have it for the whole day while mine was limited to 30 minutes so she could have it."
"As a kid, I lashed out more because of this. She could take all of my things, but I could never use hers."
During a heated moment, the OP's mother said something unforgivable.
"Eventually, this led to an argument with my mom. I don't recall the whole thing, but it was related to my sister and how I felt my mom didn't care about me or give me the same amount of attention."
"The fight got heated, and I probably told my mom that I hated my sister and her."
"I remember she said back, 'I never wanted you from the start. I knew I should've aborted you when I had the chance.'"
" I didn't know what aborted meant at the time, and I remember I looked it up, and it made me cry. I never forgot it, and it lingers in my mind whenever I am home."
The OP's mother pressured her to "let it go" and move on.
"Even growing up, I still brought it up, and she would get mad, saying I need to let it go and how I'm stubborn for not just forgetting what she said."
"There was even a time in high school when she took me to a therapist, and she complained about how I never dropped what she said."
"She says I need to move on from it because it has affected my relationship with her, and she wants to fix it."
"I know I'm older now and it was so long ago, but it still hurts, and I feel like it's made me not want to have her in my life in the future, and I have told this to her."
"How I don't want her in my life once I move out, get married, or have my own kids."
Fellow Redditors weighed in:
Some reassured the OP that this sounded like a core memory more than a grudge.
"The axe forgets. The tree remembers."
"It sounds less like you're holding a grudge and more that this is a formative, core memory for you."
"It won't stop being a core memory (unless maybe with the help of a lot of therapy). Has your mom ever apologized for saying that? Because you don't have to forget to forgive, but if she's not remorseful for saying that terrible thing to her young child (not just remorseful that you remember it), then she probably needs therapy (or is a narcissist/sociopath/similar)."
"You are certainly not obligated to 'get over it.'" - Hot-Can3615
"This is not a 'grudge'; it is pain that is still felt to such a degree. If she said it, then she was thinking it. She'll probably never apologize, but that doesn't mean your pain is or was invalid." - Fast_Register_9480
"NOR. This kind of thing needs a real apology. Like she needs to acknowledge the damage and genuinely care about it. Brushing it off won’t make it go away." - TentacleWolverine
"NOR. Did she really want to fix things? She basically just told you to get over it from the start instead of giving you a sincere apology."
"That isn't working on anything. She wants you to get over it so she can pretend that she never said it, so she doesn't have to feel bad about what she did. It doesn't sound like she cares much about how you feel."
"She just doesn't want to deal with it. For that reason, I would still have issues with what she said." - Chemical-Ad6809
"If your relationship with your mother is being affected by the actions of your mother, your mother is responsible for fixing it."
"You should know you probably aren't ever going to get closure, but you don't have to swallow it down. It helps to be the person you needed when you were younger out loud to yourself, but especially to others."
"For example: My name is Liz, and my mom told me to go ahead and do it already and save us all the heartache when I finally had the courage to tell her about how much I've been struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation. I'm never going to forgive her for that, and we have never been close as a result of her actions."
"You aren't holding onto a grudge; you have a core memory of your mother distilling her feelings into a world-shattering sentence."
"You did not have a secure attachment before and can't have one now because of the deep trauma. You do not apologize for being stabbed."
"Find another therapist. I mean it. Someone who cares about your well-being wouldn't force you to apologize for being verbally abused as a child. I'm 29 now, and I lived through it. I still struggle with suicidal ideation daily, but once I stopped relying on my mom and unstable sources for support, my life got better immediately."
"You want things for comfort and familiarity. Don't let your mom or your therapist gaslight you into crossing a boundary."
"It might help to ask for a written five-part apology from your mom. 1. Acknowledge what you did 2. Say why it was wrong 3. Promise not to do it again 4. Ask how to make amends. 5. Share your feelings at this time if there's anything you'd like to say."
"My mom can be a good person and a bad mom and role model. Being in your own company is so much better than poor company." - PotLuckyPodcast
Others hoped the OP would go no contact with her mother sooner rather than later.
"NOR. It’s emotional abuse. And you do not owe her closeness after that, especially as she refuses to be accountable for that and try to make it up to you."
"She knows you have her number, and she can’t forgive you for knowing what a colloidal b***h she is."
"It’s unlikely that will change; it will at least be turned back on you with her the victim."
"Stop expecting her to apologize. If she doesn’t pay your bills, ghost her." - SnooCheesecakes2723
"My mom said something similar. My brother and I were adopted, and when I was a teen, in front of a church lady, she said, 'We didn't even really want you, but the people didn't want to split y'all up, so we just took you, too.'"
"Me and the church lady were shook. When I say my falbbers were ghasted. Like huh? She didn't remember saying that when I brought it up years after the fact."
"I also got grounded two times for two separate nine weeks (for C's on my report card) and a three and a half to four months (for smoking at 16 and getting caught because she liked to just pop up out of nowhere), and we just had a talk about that, and she didn't even remember."
"She said, 'No, I didn't. I never grounded you for that long,' and when I gave my rebuttal, she said, 'Well, if I did, it definitely wasn't for no nine weeks or months,' and this started because she was praising me for reading so much and liking books. I said, 'Well, when you were grounded like me, that's all I could do (no TV, no friends outside of school, no music, nothing but my room and books)."
"There's a reason I only call or answer her calls once or twice every few weeks. And I only call to get food, really..." - ManicalMoe
"‘Fine, I'm sorry’ is not an apology."
"Whilst I’m sure it was said in anger, most things said in anger have a grain of truth. There are also some things that no half-decent parent ever says to their children, no matter how angry they are, and this is one of them! It also sounds like she has made repeated similar comments of not wanting you as her child."
"I understand her eldest had a disability, but this is no excuse for neglecting and emotionally abusing her younger child. Lots of families deal with a child with additional needs whilst still managing to prioritise their other kids. Children with Down syndrome are capable of understanding ‘that’s your sister's, not yours; give it back’ !! It sounds like your mum has mental health issues?"
"Do you have a present father or other family you can turn to?"
"Protect your peace. Your mum has hurt you time and time again, honestly, for no real gain other than momentarily satisfying her anger. You owe this woman nothing." - Background_Term9810
"I went through something similar. When I was a little girl, my mother used to make comments that implied she didn't want me, though it was never that explicit. 'I only had you because your brother wanted a sister,' and 'My figure never recovered after you; after your brother, it did.'"
"Each comment stayed with me, but I never addressed it with her. I tried to move on and leave it in the past. She did a lot of horrible things throughout my life, but her behavior was always ignored because that's the precedent my dad set, where she can do essentially whatever she wants."
"A few months ago, she came to see me because I was desperate for help and sick. Instead of helping, she made my life so much worse. I won't go into details. At one point, I could no longer keep it inside, and I told her that she is a narcissist, to which she responded with, 'It would have been better if I had never had you.'"
"In some ways, it felt really good to hear her come out and say it. It felt good to hear the truth I've always known."
"I don't know what you should do, but I've chosen to not forgive."
"Every time I forgave, I just let her know that she can get away with whatever horrible things she had done. Her apologies were never real apologies. She always found ways to blame me or others for whatever she had done."
"And I'm truly just done with it. As sad as it is to not have a mom, it's sadder to pretend that you have one when in reality you don't... quite the opposite, if anything." - Neos_Mom
"So, OP, what will hurt more: keeping her and the grudge in your life or making a break and going low or no contact with her?"
"Frankly, we've no idea of what she might have been dealing with at the time, but regardless, what she said was said only to cause pain and suffering. 'Sorry' doesn't magic that intent away."
"Me, I think spending time alone or with friends or in therapy away from her might be what you need here. You might come to some sort of acceptance, but if this is something that's just going to keep coming between you, then stop trying to have that relationship." - Tal_Tos_72
After the OP received feedback, she shared a few clarifications from her original post.
"I wanted to clear some things up, take accountability where it's due, and provide some much-needed context from many people commenting the same questions."
"I want to be completely honest. We had many arguments, and I was a rebellious kid. I acted out and argued with my mom."
"I don't want to give off the impression that I was an entirely innocent kid who never did anything wrong and my mom just snapped out of nowhere. We both said hateful and hurtful things to each other during our fights."
"Growing up, the only way she would accept an apology was if I got on my knees and begged her for forgiveness. If I ever asked her to apologize to me, she would say, 'I have nothing to apologize for; you should be the one begging for my forgiveness.'"
The OP had a lot of physical memories, too.
"Things also would turn into physical arguments, not just verbal ones."
"There were times when she would get so angry she would get physical. Like yanking me by my hair, twisting my arms, or throwing things at me (like remotes, a bug spray can, or a radio)."
"When she yanked my hair, I would fight back just to get her to let me go, and she would scream that I was trying to kill her and she would get me arrested. When she twisted my arm, and I begged her to stop because it felt like it was going to break, she would say she hoped it did."
"When she threw objects at me, she would say she wished they would hit my face."
"I remember in middle school, during an argument, she said she wished she could break my face and that she hated it because I look like my dad. I won’t lie, whenever she said things like that, I would say nasty comments about how she chose to have him put us in her."
While the OP wasn't financially ready to move out yet, she hoped to as soon as possible.
"Why haven't I moved out yet? The main reason I haven't been able to move out is financial."
"I wasn't making enough to support myself without worrying about whether I’d end up having to crawl back home."
"Thankfully, I have recently found a better-paying job. My plan is to move out between mid-to-late October, or early November at the latest."
"The only reason I can't leave this exact second is because I have a few legal/administrative things to get cleared up so I’m completely untied from my mom, which will take a few weeks."
The OP also had proof that her mother liked her sister better.
"Has my mom ever admitted to favoring my sister? Yes."
"In arguments, she has explicitly told me that she doesn't see me as her legitimate daughter, and that she adored my sister more and forever will. She has also called me a 'monster,' told me there is a certain type of evil inside of me, and said she was afraid I would be just like my dad and try to harm them."
"She would even tell me that she was telling family and friends these things about me, but then later claim she 'just said it in the moment' and wouldn't be crazy enough to actually tell people that."
"Because I was so confused growing up and didn't know if she was lying or telling the truth, I started avoiding our family when they came over."
"Naturally, that just made things worse because she would get mad at me for avoiding them (even now as an adult), completely ignoring the fact that she was the one who lied about what she told them."
Unfortunately, the OP didn't have support from her father.
"What about my dad? My dad is not in my life."
"He was around sporadically, but never as a stable parent. My parents separated before I was born and divorced when I was two or three."
"Growing up, it was just constant back-and-forth toxicity, with him telling me how toxic my mother was, and her telling me the same about him."
"He would mostly only come over to see my sister, and often used me to care for her if he wanted to take her out to eat. Ultimately, my dad didn't care about anyone else other than my sister (and his drugs)."
"I hope this can clear some questions on the original post. I know I didn't provide many details as I originally should have. I honestly didn't want to post something too long, and I honestly did not expect it to be noticed."
"Thank you all for taking time to talk to me and share your thoughts."
The subReddit fully sided with the OP, pointing out that no matter how heated the moment was, it would never excuse the terrible things the OP's mother had said to her.
If the OP's mother really wanted a relationship with her, she'd drop the defensiveness and demands, offer a genuine apology, and work hard to be better for both of her children.
That takes a very rare kind of person to pull off, and it didn't sound like the OP's mother had that in her.
If you or someone you know is struggling, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 988.
To find help outside the United States, the International Association for Suicide Prevention has resources available at https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp